三谈"李向东事件":平权会必须面对民众

远羊

帖子是严重跑题了～～
如果说木然和51是在为知名度炒作，至少无可厚非，因为他们没有动用纳税人的钱，不像xx会，拿政府的拨款来炒～～
看面相，吴不是吃素的，李一看就是被长期被欺压的主～～
一个警察和我说的：女人告男人暴力，男人立马带走；男人被女人打得鼻青脸肿，警察叫他下次躲着点好了～～
谁看过片子了？里面到底都说了李什么？争论有点盲人摸象的味道～～
如果xx会不公布这部片字，这一切的争论都毫无意义～～

台北夢

Dear Mr. Lee,
I spent nearly an hour writing a personal note to you in Chinese, but by  pressing  a wrong button, the whole note is gone. So I am writing a few more words in English, it is a little faster.

What I want to say most to you is good luck and take care. Time goes by very quickly. One day when you look back, this is only a small obstacle in your life. If you love your wife and your family, only you could find a way to solve all these problems with her, your heart will tell you what to do.Between a man and a woman, there is a lot words cannot express. Your heart will lead the way.

Perhaps one day you can walk hand in hand with Amanda and your daughter and laugh about the film that was once made. Believe me, after going through all these, you and Amanda  might even learn about how precious each other is.

送你这句：好事多磨，守得云开见月明

加国老三

最初由[Lat123]发布
QUOTE]Sedona :In my humble opinion



Hi Sedona,
I dont quite agree to your opinion that these laws favour women.
As you and many other speakers have already understand, women, senior, children, and the disabled are recognized as the fragile  society groups, therefore they are givien more attention by the laws. These fragile groups are given better protection because, for various reasons we have discussed before, there are genuine needs to do so, not BECAUSE OF FAVOURIITISM.  The word 'favouritism' implys some acts which are not fair. Because there is  a genuine need to protect the weaker and fragile groups, therefore, the word 'favouritism' is not  appropriate. That is why the legal system does not declare that 'it favours women' because it simply does not.
   不要混扰是非
问题的关键是，在此案中谁是弱者，谁是应该受到保护的。
在加拿大不争的事实是：（摘自本栏目  兰岷  29帖）

《 支持木然。这部片子本身得出发点没有错。但是，既然是真人真事，就要全面了解，不能着听一面的。有些人恶人先告状
，动不动报911。以前我们店里也有一个女的围了吆喝她的老公离婚，老找事吵架。还报警，警擦来了，把她的老公管起来了，上法庭搞了几个月，最后女的后悔了，花了些钱，才把事情搞定。这敏敏是女的为了自己的目的可是有时候恶人先告状事态来了便易，有些女得知道加拿大是保护女的， 在家里比男的还凶动不动威吓老公，下的老公连大气都不敢出，这到底是谁怕谁。但是不管咋样，我们要本着实事求是，不能为了某些的原因，助长不良风气。》

  （摘自 遭前妻小姨继女指控，以打赢两场官司，北京移民今三战性侵罪   jennyxu   20帖）
原来是这样
我家原来租住过老田的（我叫他老田）上居下铺的房子，刚开始的时候住的是地下室，那时老田正在打和小姨的官司，他的老婆和继女都有点不正常，老婆还有一个弟弟一家住在多伦多，是老田帮忙从国内办过来的，因为弟弟经常出些主意，有时缺心眼儿的老婆在老田和妹妹之间摇摆不定。有一次因为老田老婆向着老田，她妹妹还报警说姐姐威胁她，把她抓起来大概有两个星期，那段时间我帮忙和老田的继女照看杂货店。
再说那个继女laura，每天不停的吃东西，所以很胖，只是在看星岛日报娱乐版时才想起来要减肥去参加选美，然后在店里踢几下腿，踢到冰箱前面再拿起一只雪糕。她当时大概小学毕业，和我7岁的儿子智商差不多，在我家玩的时候看我的睡衣好看，就说睡不着觉，穿我的睡衣就能睡得很好，硬是穿了好几个星期。那件睡衣是老公给我买的，有一天老公半夜下班，还以为我换个地方睡觉了呢，差点犯错误。（稍后解释为啥看见她睡觉了）
再说老田，当时应该有五十多岁了，每天不到五点钟起床送报纸，然后上货，回家就看店，每天忙个不停，身上穿的是同款不同颜色的圆领衫。我是见过他流泪的，有一天黄昏，她告诉我他在国内的老母亲去世了，因为和小姨的官司他正取保候审，所以他回不去了，他说他很久没回去了。当时他告诉我，他妻妹说想要他的房子，要是这个案子打不赢就告他性骚扰laura。他恳求我们搬到楼上去住，而他自己住到了地下室。
老田家的二楼很宽敞，可是laura却住在走廊尽头一个大概有两米宽的隔断里，没有门，连个帘子也没有，这就是我老公看见穿着我的睡衣的laura .
我们在老田的房子只住了两个月，鉴于他家情况复杂，我们匆忙搬走了。现在我们有了自己的房子，因为条件所限，我们也出租了地下室，但是坚决不租给没有合法身份的，女单身。

还有一个不争的事实，在加拿大特别是西人家庭，平时不争不吵，爆发时就是命案，Mississauga  QEW/Cawthra交界处发生的住宅大爆炸，上个月地铁发生的掐颈窒息一女子死亡案等等。


以上的事实向我们敲起了警钟：
家暴现象有愈演愈烈的趋势，如何正确的处理家暴应当引起我们的深思，严重点说家暴现象的升级与家暴问题的处理有着直接的因果关系，这也是摆在人们面前必须思考的问题。
  抛下个人的恩恩怨怨，利益得失，为社会着想，为了明天的更美好，人与人之间，夫妻间更和谐，还有什么为了维护个人的过失，而一定要越描越黑呢。
勇于面对事实，得到人们的认可比什么都重要，好的形象是自己用行动树立起来的，不是靠敷衍和狡辩能做到的。

Sedona

最初由[冬雪canada]发布
轻声的告诉你，我是很理智的人



_______________________

  因为我要用法律来保护自己，尽管你们的假设与事实相差甚远，我不会与你们多辨。
  我只相信人们都希望生活在诚实守信的环境中，“撒谎有术，但有限” 谎言终究会被揭穿。
   无论在哪一个国家，想依靠欺骗过日子的人，终究会“搬起石头砸自己的脚” 可悲的结局是必然


I agree.

Re-organize your life.  Focus on yourself and your daughter.

Good luck and all the best.

Sedona

最初由[Lat123]发布
QUOTE]Sedona :In my humble opinion



Hi Sedona,
I dont quite agree to your opinion that these laws favour women.
As you and many other speakers have already understand, women, senior, children, and the disabled are recognized as the fragile  society groups, therefore they are givien more attention by the laws. These fragile groups are given better protection because, for various reasons we have discussed before, there are genuine needs to do so, not BECAUSE OF FAVOURIITISM.  The word 'favouritism' implys some acts which are not fair. Because there is  a genuine need to protect the weaker and fragile groups, therefore, the word 'favouritism' is not  appropriate. That is why the legal system does not declare that 'it favours women' because it simply does not.


We agree to disagree.

I find the world unfair and unjust, but I let go.  I won't let anyone or anything to interfere my life.

I am not a reformer, and I don't bother changing the society.  I keep reshaping myself to adjust to the external environment to max out the enjoyment of my life.

Sedona

Sex in a marriage has been a topic in this discussion.

Regardless, a consent is required in a sex encounter, within or outside of a marriage.

I don't do one night stand because it is too risky.  You never know this female stranger will accuse you of anything.

If my new girlfriend complains I have not done my first move, that's because she has not given me enough hints to do so.  I need:

1. she writes a consent.  I bet most women will tell me to get lost.

2. she shows me the condom, which is part of the evidence she has given the consent.

How about withdrawal of consent.  In the famous case in Hong Kong, a woman withdrew her consent during intimacy, but he would not stop.  He was convicted and sentenced to jail for 5 years.

I feel the world is not natural and twisted by the law. That's why I don't need a woman in my life.

台北夢

Sedona :In my humble opinion, family laws in all common law countries including Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealan and Hong Kong favour women than men.

Hi Sedona,
I dont quite agree to your opinion that these laws favour women.
As you and many other speakers have already understand, women, senior, children, and the disabled are recognized as the fragile  society groups, therefore they are givien more attention by the laws. These fragile groups are given better protection because, for various reasons we have discussed before, there are genuine needs to do so, not BECAUSE OF FAVOURIITISM.  The word 'favouritism' implys some acts which are not fair. Because there is  a genuine need to protect the weaker and fragile groups, therefore, the word 'favouritism' is not  appropriate. That is why the legal system does not declare that 'it favours women' because it simply does not.

冬雪canada

最初由[Sedona]发布
Concepts in common law are very different and very interesting.

Facts at court, unlike facts in common sense, are facts agreed upon by all parties.  In a conflict, "he says, she says" is submission - not facts, unless both agree.  We then call them agreed facts.

The judge will base on the submissions and evidence (also submission), both physical and by the witeness.  The judge will focus on disagreement and make a finding/ruling, which still is not a fact, in a legal sense.

What Mr. Lee has said in 51 is "submission" by himself - not a fact.  What Ms. Wu said in the video is "submission" by herself, also not a fact.

We can conclude the following facts, based on Mr. Lee's submission (probably Ms. Wu will not oppose):

1. Mr. Lee had a knife in his hand, during the first incident. His motive is a submission, not a fact.

2. He had a no contact order and he returned home afteer 2 weeks.

3. At this moment, there is a no contact order aginst him for a year.


In my humble opinion, family laws in all common law countries including Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealan and Hong Kong favour women than men.

As a man, occasionally, I feel I am a second class citizen.  However, as a man, I don't quite comprehend the nature and intensity a woman suffers in a conflictual relationship.

That's the real world.  I learn how to protect myself in interaction with a female.

_______________________

  因为我要用法律来保护自己，尽管你们的假设与事实相差甚远，我不会与你们多辨。
  我只相信人们都希望生活在诚实守信的环境中，“撒谎有术，但有限” 谎言终究会被揭穿。
   无论在哪一个国家，想依靠欺骗过日子的人，终究会“搬起石头砸自己的脚” 可悲的结局是必然

Sedona

Concepts in common law are very different and very interesting.

Facts at court, unlike facts in common sense, are facts agreed upon by all parties.  In a conflict, "he says, she says" is submission - not facts, unless both agree.  We then call them agreed facts.

The judge will base on the submissions and evidence (also submission), both physical and by the witeness.  The judge will focus on disagreement and make a finding/ruling, which still is not a fact, in a legal sense.

What Mr. Lee has said in 51 is "submission" by himself - not a fact.  What Ms. Wu said in the video is "submission" by herself, also not a fact.

We can conclude the following facts, based on Mr. Lee's submission (probably Ms. Wu will not oppose):

1. Mr. Lee had a knife in his hand, during the first incident. His motive is a submission, not a fact.

2. He had a no contact order and he returned home afteer 2 weeks.

3. At this moment, there is a no contact order aginst him for a year.


In my humble opinion, family laws in all common law countries including Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealan and Hong Kong favour women than men.

As a man, occasionally, I feel I am a second class citizen.  However, as a man, I don't quite comprehend the nature and intensity a woman suffers in a conflictual relationship.

That's the real world.  I learn how to protect myself in interaction with a female.

Sedona

有没有隔离令的原版，我们可以看到隔离令上具体是怎么说的呢？另外，隔离令不是由警察出具的，而是由法官发出的，那么法官出具隔离令都有什么条件吗？

如果仅仅因为怀疑家庭暴力，认为可能有家庭暴力，就可以发出隔离令的话，没必要必须由法官发出，警察也可以发出。希望懂行的朋友解释一下。


I can answer this question, after doing this job for a living for 20 years in Canada.

After a person is investigated, arrested and charged by police in accordance with the Criminal Code, the person can be released by an Undertaking, which is the promise to show up at court for a hearing.  The undertaking, which is for minor offenses, can come with or without a condition.  In violence against women, the common condition is no contact with the victim and/or the children residing with the victim.

The verbatim is like no direct or indirect communication unless via a third party e.g. a counsel or CAS, if CAS is involved. Others like 200 metres away from the residence, workplace or school.

This undertaking is valid till the first court hearing. A court order will replace the undertaking.

If the person is detained for the night till bail hearing at a law court, the judge will make a bail condition with or without conditions. If there are no contact conditions, verbatim will be very similar to the above.

In Lee's case, I bet he must have been detained for the night for a bail because he had a knife, and according to his own submission, there was a no contact order.  He returned home after 2 weeks, despite the court order.

After the seond incident which was a verbal altercation, he was detained because of the breach of the no contact order.

I don't understand why he was detained for 2 months, which is a long time.  Did he have a lawyer?  Did he re-negotiate the bail conditions at court?  He didn't say.  Perhaps, he didn't know or understand the process.

According to Lee's submission in 51, I bet there was no trial, so he was not convicted or acquitted.  I guess he entered into a plead bargain with the Crown Attorney that he agreed to the extension of the no contact order for the Crown's decision not to proceed.  In a nutshell, he was not guilty or innocent, but agreed to a court order.

In common law, most conflicts are handled by bargain and settlement.  Less than 10% of the cases will go to trial; otherwise, we will need a court house on every street.

No matter what, since day 1 from the first incident, there has been a court order.  Such a court order is still in effect till a year later.  A court order speaks for itself that Mr. Lee is a risk to Ms Wu.

What is interesting is Mr. Lee says the court order forbids him from having contact with his daughter.  If that's the case, the judge believes he is a risk to his daughter as well.

Can he appeal?  If he was convicted, he missed the 30 day appeal period.  If he had a bargain, he has a "contract" with the court.

His criminal case is done and over.

Can he apply for custody?  Yes, he can, but the chance is quite slim.  Ms Wu will use this criminal court case and CAS record against him.  At best, he can have access after the no contact order expires.

台北夢

第一次虽然刀都在李 的手中，但是法官都能判死亡威胁罪名不能成立，你们又是什么东西，凌驾于法官之上吗！你们那一位参加了庭审，知道事情发生的经过吗，你们的理论根据又是什么

加国老三：

法官对李ＸＸ已经作了惩罚，对吧？！法宫判得轻不等如李某没有恐吓行为，其实是想给这些家庭以後还有一些和好的机会。

你知道我们是不可以凌驾于法官之上就好了。这是法治社会呀、不是靠'propaganda'-谣传手法来办事的。江青时代已过去。认命吧

其实李ＸＸ已经用了最不智的手法去批斗自己的家庭，所以我也看不起这样的人。很明显Amanda要拍戏也不像是要回头看他一眼，静静的离婚吧。

在纲上没完没了的吵闹，讨论，其实全都是多此一举，叫老李及木然收咪吧。唉！我们也可静一静！

冬雪canada

最初由[Lat123]发布
To 加国老三

Too bad you have prejudice against those who speak English. I do prefer to express myself in either language, depending on my mood.
Old Man, you are speaking with false rationale, you are only here to turn the social order of Canada unside down. Thumb down for you. Who wants to waste time to argue with people who are incapable of helping maintain the laws and justice of this country??!! Mr. Lee has been found quilty, admit it. We choose to listen to the words of the laws and the court, that is the ultimate! Period. Good luck, I hope I dont see you crying in the picture on the newspapers soon for Domestic Violence. I will say Hurray!

___________________________________________


太差你有偏見的人講英語 . 我不太喜歡表達自己在兩種語文 ,取決於我的心情. 老頭子 ,你是說假理, 你只在這裡把社會治安加拿大unside下來 . thumb down for you . 誰想浪費時間去爭辯的人無法協助維持法律和正義 這個國家 ? ? ! ! 李先生已發現 quilty ,承認 . 我們選擇聽取詞的法律和法院,這是最基本的! 7 . 好運 ,我希望dont看到你的哭聲 ,這張照片的報紙很快為家庭暴力. 我會說 hurray ! [ / quote ]  
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<太差你有偏見的人講英語 . 我不太喜歡表達自己在兩種語文 ,取決於我的心情. 老頭子 ,你是說假理, 你只在這裡把社會治安加拿大unside下來 . thumb down for you . 誰想浪費時間去爭辯的人無法協助維持法律和正義 這個國家 ? ? ! ! 李先生已發現 quilty ,承認 . 我們選擇聽取詞的法律和法院,這是最基本的! 7 . 好運 ,我希望dont看到你的哭聲 ,這張照片的報紙很快為家庭暴力. 我會說 hurray ! [ / quote ]  >
  
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鄙视你的行为！

山顶洞人

李向东根本不是好人、有目共睹、他只利用你們拿回面子、而51.ca也是利用他来做文章、编辑更有扰乱加国公安伦理的行为。放下你粗暴、强奸妇女专严的所有动作吧！

“有目共睹”，不知根据何在？

“专严”应为“尊严”吧？

胡硕士

俺看老李有"妻管严"面象(一把鼻涕一把泪的}. 后来,"哪里有压迫,哪里就有反抗". 但反抗的方式不妥(搞武装斗争),不小心踩了地雷. 值得同情. 不过,既然当"唐僧", 就应该"打不还手,骂不还手".