老实说，看到这种消息，一笑而过。
有些人的心理真的很病态。全世界有10000家报纸，一个神马马来西亚的《海峡时报》就被当成了权威圭臬。
有些人想护俄反美是想疯了
做人一定要有正义之心。
我痛恨对普通贫民下手的人。
马来西亚是受害国，也是参与事件调查的国家之一，我宁愿相信马来西亚。而不是那些被某些邪恶种族控制的媒体的声音。
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft
An armed Ukrainian stands on part of the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane after it crashed near the settlement of Grabovo in the Donetsk region, July 17, 2014.
An armed Ukrainian stands on part of the wreckage of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane after it crashed near the settlement of Grabovo in the Donetsk region, July 17, 2014.
Thu Aug 7, 2014 2:45PM
Haris Hussain, New Straits Times Online
Related Interviews:
'Satellite data on MH17 must be released'
Related Viewpoints:
Who is blocking MH17 probe? Why?
Intelligence analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile and that the Ukrainian government had something to do with it.
This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.
In a damning report dated Aug 3, headlined “Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts”, Associated Press reporter Robert Parry said, “some US intelligence sources had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame.”
This new revelation was posted on GlobalResearch, an independent research and media organization.
In a statement released by the Ukrainian embassy on Tuesday, Kiev denied that its fighters were airborne during the time MH17 was shot down. This follows a statement released by the Russian Defense Ministry that its air traffic control had detected Ukrainian Air Force activity in the area on the same day.
They also denied all allegations made by the Russian government and said the country’s core interest was in ensuring an immediate, comprehensive, transparent and unbiased international investigation into the tragedy by establishing a state commission comprising experts from the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) and Eurocontrol.
“We have evidence that the plane was downed by Russian-backed terrorist with a BUK-M1 SAM system (North Atlantic Treaty Organization reporting name SA-11) which, together with the crew, had been supplied from Russia. This was all confirmed by our intelligence, intercepted telephone conversations of the terrorists and satellite pictures.
“At the same time, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have never used any anti-aircraft missiles since the anti-terrorist operations started in early April,” the statement read.
Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.
Parry’s conclusion also stemmed from the fact that despite assertions from the Obama administration, there has not been a shred of tangible evidence to support the conclusion that Russia supplied the rebels with the BUK-M1 anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet.
Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.
Bociurkiw is a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with OSCE who, along with another colleague, were the first international monitors to reach the wreckage after flight MH17 was brought down over eastern Ukraine.
In the CBC interview, the reporter in the video preceded it with: “The wreckage was still smoldering when a small team from the OSCE got there. No other officials arrived for days.”
“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machinegun fire; very, very strong machinegun fire,” Bociurkiw said in the interview.
Parry had said that Bociurkiw’s testimony is “as close to virgin, untouched evidence and testimony as we’ll ever get. Unlike a black-box interpretation-analysis long afterward by the Russian, British or Ukrainian governments, each of which has a horse in this race, this testimony from Bociurkiw is raw, independent and comes from one of the two earliest witnesses to the physical evidence.
“That’s powerfully authoritative testimony. Bociurkiw arrived there fast because he negotiated with the locals for the rest of the OSCE team, who were organizing to come later,” Parry had said.
Retired Lufthansa pilot Peter Haisenko had also weighed in on the new shootdown theory with Parry and pointed to the entry and exit holes centered around the cockpit.
“You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30mm caliber projectile.
“The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes, show shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent — outwardly.”
He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.
“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.
“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
GJH/HRJ
飞鱼IT 发表于 2014-8-9 07:38 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
press tv是伊朗国家电视台
老实说，看到这种消息，一笑而过。
有些人的心理真的很病态。全世界有10000家报纸，一个神马马来西亚的《海峡时报》就被当成了权威圭臬。
有些人想护俄反美是想疯了
克虏伯大炮 发表于 2014-8-9 13:30 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
磕巴大疱心理真的很病态， 你一个轮子邪教徒是护美反俄想疯了， 最主要是你一天到晚疯疯癫癫地眷恋你的共爹到了痴呆的地步， 明显是疯了
，
如果是美国人的出的结论，最初始的报道应当出自美国权威媒体，这该是常识吧？
如果是美国人的出的结论，最初始的报道应当出自美国权威媒体，这该是常识吧？
酒中仙 发表于 2014-8-9 23:27 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
老酒： 你说说看，马航MH17谁打下来的？
1、能解释马航MH17为什么偏离正常航线？
2、能解释乌克兰公布录音文件日期是7月16日，被击落是7月17日？
3、能解释为什么乌克兰战机曾经尾随MH17直至被击落？
4、美国当时有颗侦查卫星路过，为什么美国不公布图片资料？
5、乌克兰总统为什么辞职？
MH17先被导弹弹片击破，失去压力引起爆炸，后被30MM加农炮彻底击毁（飞机残片显示飞机遭到2种炮弹打击）
要是美国真能用大报率先公布事实真相，说明美国还有正义之人。
下周一 MH１７坠机事件荷兰调查组将宣布是谁用什么击落了 MH１７。
老酒： 你说说看，马航MH17谁打下来的？
1、能解释马航MH17为什么偏离正常航线？
2、能解释乌克兰公布录音文件日期是7月16日，被击落是7月17日？
3、能解释为什么乌克兰战机曾经尾随MH17直至被击落？
4、美国当时有颗侦查卫星路过，为什么美国不公布图片资料？
5、乌克兰总统为什么辞职？
MH17先被导弹弹片击破，失去压力引起爆炸，后被30MM加农炮彻底击毁（飞机残片显示飞机遭到2种炮弹打击）
要是美国真能用大报率先公布事实真相，说明美国还有正义之人。
飞鱼IT 发表于 2014-8-9 23:54 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
所列出的这些不是疑问就是假说，都还不是结论。需要等待调查结果，也可能永远没有结果。
但是我不相信乌克兰政府会干这种事。因为乌克兰政府现在困难重重，面临被俄罗斯肢解，需要国际社会的同情支持，他们为什麽会做这种犯众怒的事？但是猜测推理并不是结论，要等结论。
所列出的这些不是疑问就是假说，都还不是结论。需要等待调查结果，也可能永远没有结果。
但是我不相信乌克兰政府会干这种事。因为乌克兰政府现在困难重重，面临被俄罗斯肢解，需要国际社会的同情支持，他们为什麽会做这种犯众怒的事？但是猜测推理并不是结论，要等结论。
酒中仙 发表于 2014-8-11 17:00 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
好一朵橙色的乌克兰茉莉花。。。。。。:D
所列出的这些不是疑问就是假说，都还不是结论。需要等待调查结果，也可能永远没有结果。
但是我不相信乌克兰政府会干这种事。因为乌克兰政府现在困难重重，面临被俄罗斯肢解，需要国际社会的同情支持，他们为什麽会做这种犯众怒的事？但是猜测推理并不是结论，要等结论。
酒中仙 发表于 2014-8-11 17:00 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
飞机刚被打下来的时候西方媒体可是迫不及待地把罪名加在大毛和狗腿子头上了，狗粮们也摇旗呐喊支持，那个时候为什么不能等调查的结果哪？谁先抢占“道德制高点”谁就有理？！
本帖最后由 飞鱼IT 于 2014-8-12 08:29 编辑
所列出的这些不是疑问就是假说，都还不是结论。需要等待调查结果，也可能永远没有结果。
但是我不相信乌克兰政府会干这种事。因为乌克兰政府现在困难重重，面临被俄罗斯肢解，需要国际社会的同情支持，他们为什麽会做这种犯众怒的事？但是猜测推理并不是结论，要等结论。
酒中仙 发表于 2014-8-11 17:00 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif
我认为乌克兰为了脱离当时的困境（乌克兰政府军当时几乎面临被全歼），为了得到更多的支持，企图栽赃乌克兰民间武装，
精心设计了这次事件：
1、乌克兰政府不配合此次调查。荷兰人对乌克兰特别不满意（英国报道）。乌克兰在没有结论之前就对媒体宣布是乌克兰民间武装误击落马航客机。
2、让飞机偏离航线。
3、战斗机尾随马航MH17，挟持飞机偏离航线，到达战区上空，造成被乌克兰民间（背后俄罗斯）武装击落的假象。（导致俄罗斯被制裁）
4、及时播放录音和BUK导弹车视频
5、西方在没有结论之前就开始谴责和制裁俄罗斯。
6、未提供第三个黑匣子
7、荷兰在等美国卫星资料进行进一步证实。美国到目前为止尚未提供资料。
8、马航此次对乌克兰也相当不满意，说只能通过自己的方法要回到2个来自民间武装的黑匣子。
9、客机遭受了2种武器的袭击。
10、挑了个小国客机下手。（如果这次掉下的是美国客机，我的分析一定不一样，美国卫星资料也会立刻公布）
RAJ says: August 5, 2014 at 12:57 pm
Please see http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/270700 “A lorry owner claimed that his white Volvo heavy vehicle was used by Russian separatists to smuggle the alleged BUK missile that shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 into Ukraine.
The owner identified by Lithuanian website alfa.it as Vasilijus, has said the video taken by Ukrainian intelligence officials show pro-Russian militants used his lorry to transport the BUK missile.
“Yes, this is my vehicle. It is easy to recognise. We know our vehicles. Yes it is ours,” Vasilijus confirmed with the Lithuanian website as reported by Australiannews.com.au.
“It is the only Volvo with such a cabin,” he added.
Vasilijus claimed that his base in Donetsk was taken over on July 8 – nine days before the gunning down of the jetliner, and the lorry was used to transport the missile that was parked there.
The Ukrainian intelligence video showed a convoy transporting the missile launcher across Donetsk, and this is seen as evidence of it being used by Russian separatists who allegedly shot down the MH17 Boeing 777 aircraft that killed 298 passengers and flight crew on board.
The footage showed the vehicle heading towards Russia.
Vasilijus confirmed that his base is still in rebel hands and he is expected to be a key witness in the investigation in identifying who was responsible in the downing of the airliner.”
TheSysX says: August 6, 2014 at 5:48 am
Again another *** story and easy to refute.
1) Operational (service) ceiling of the US-25 is 7.000m (MH17 was flying at 10.000) which would make a bit hard to successfully target and hit a fast (900km/h vs ) moving plane with a board cannon.
2) Effective Air-to-Air range of the Su-25 (GSch-302 /AO-17A) cannon is between 500m-800m, while its Air-to-Ground range is between 1.200m-1.800m (which it is its intended use as Ground support fighter)
3) Compare the damage done (much larger and uniform shaped holes) to this (target practice) APC (armored vehicle) by a 30mm Air-to-Ground cannon [http://tinyurl.com/ly5mcmn] [http://tinyurl.com/olqzujx], to the irregular and sharp edged holes in the MH17 fuselage [http://tinyurl.com/luyk59k].
You may also read this Russian article quoting Vladimir Babak (chief designer of the SU-25 fighter plane), that in his opinion, it is very unlikely that a SU-25 could have shot down MH17.. (http://www.aex.ru/news/2014/7/28/122697/)
Russian fighter pilot doctrine (as All Ukraine are Russian trained) does NOT dictate a cross fire (2 pronged) attack on a single target in flight.It is not only very hard to time and execute (remember max firing distance of 30mm canon is 800m and all 3 planes would be flying around 900km/h) but it is also very very dangerous. One of the pilots may miss the MH17 and hit his wingman..
This is just a stupid theory.
本帖最后由 酒中仙 于 2014-8-12 12:50 编辑
回复 26# 飞鱼IT
【林忌评论】假新闻的中港融合
8月9日香港电台发布了一单令人震惊的国际新闻，题目为「马媒引述美情报机构：客机或被乌政府击落」，内文说「美国情报部门已经得出结论，认为马航 MH17是被空对空导弹击落…是被乌克兰政府击落」;这新闻实在非常「爆炸性」，因为美国情报部门达成如此惊人的结论，竟不见于任何美国或英文的传媒，却先被「马媒引述」再成为香港电台的新闻，究竟为甚么?
真相就是，香港电台表面自称是引述马来西亚《新海峡时报》的报导，实际上却是抄中共的《环球时报》，把原文搬字过纸，当成是自己从马来西亚的报纸翻译成为中文。「美国情报部门得出结论」这十字，就是从环时原字抄录，香港电台甚至从环时所写的「美情报人士认定」标题，改为「马媒引述美情报机构」，以讹传讹不断「作大」，而事实上马来西亚那篇报导，所写的只有「一些美国情报来源」，而引述的作者是「一位美联社记者」 Robert Perry。
而这位 Robert Perry实际上早已于1987年，即27年前，已经离开了美联社，近年更被评长期亲俄国，宣扬俄国的观点;更甚者，此作者的原文只提及「一些美国的情报分析员」，既没有列出来源，当中更荒谬到犯上一些基本的错误──例如宣称MH17上有「子弹痕迹」，因此相信是乌克兰的战机及「空对空导弹」所造成云云。实际上，俄制的山毛榉「地对空导弹」会在目标的近处爆炸，再令碎片击中目标的机身，这早在事发后被一众军事评论谈及。10日，马来西亚的国防部长拿督斯里希山慕丁，回覆记者提问否认「空对空导弹」击落的说法，等同否定了上述报导的可能性。
香港电台的新闻犯了两个严重错误，第一是抄新闻，把环时报导搬字过纸当作自己的;第二是假扮引述马来西亚的报导，实际上却来自环时，因此犯上和环时一模一样的荒谬错误。这次事件证明了一点，香港、台湾以至海外的华文传媒，一直被中共以直接或间接的方式长期渗透，简单至抄文以及懒惰的恶习，已经成功帮中共把政府的洗脑宣传机器，把维稳工程由中国大陆成功扩展到全世界;透过这些假外电报导，篡改当中关键的字眼，甚至引述一些表面上是外媒，实际上是「假外媒」如中共在日本的《日本新闻网》，以及中共在法国的《欧洲时报》，令华文传媒的公信力，集体沦落到和中共的传媒一样，假新闻处处，不断帮中共洗脑。
这说明了为何由中国大陆到海外，都有这么多反日反美反欧等所谓「爱国人士」，这些人根本不知道，自己和北韩那些绝对资讯封锁者，只是五十步笑百步，只有程度上的差别，本质是一样的。情况就有如中国奶粉不可靠，以为买的是洋奶粉，实际上却仍然是中国生产或渗了毒的。想走出这个困局，实在难上加难。(自由亚洲电台粤语部评论)
The matter of truth is the pro-russia separatists had swept the plane wreckage numerous times and blocked international investigators from entering the scene for weeks. It doesn't take an utter fool to suspect that the evidences indicating to the true version of airstrike have been either destroyed or altered to what they appear to be today.