UPS 真的不能使用

好兴致 · 发表于 2015-3-20 10:28:45

Part 9: The Final Outcome.

This is part of an ongoing series of posts starting here.

On March 14th 2011, around 3:30PM the UPS van pulled up outside my house.

I walked downstairs and opened the door. The driver emerged and retrieved a box from the back of the van and walked it to my door.

The driver politely greeted me and gave me my package. She quietly stood and waited while I opened and inspected the package and when I was satisfied it wasn't damaged, I thanked her and she left.

Victory.

No brokerage or additional fees and my item was undamaged, delivered as expected.

Final Notes:
CBSA
In my specific experience, the CBSA was, without exception, professional and interested in helping me out on the phone and in person.

I spoke with both the Ottawa and Kelowna office multiple times and was dealt with in a fair and direct manner each and every time.

Even when my wife and I went to the office in the evening and were unable to complete the B-15 process, it was not due to the agents not trying or wanting to help. I suspect that this process is very infrequently performed and as such, benefits from either yourself or the CBSA agent having done it before. In hindsight, I think that if I had mentioned the fact that all I was looking for was a B-15 form, it's quite possible they may have understood that process rather than trying to help me "self-clear".

That being said, my personal research has shown that CBSA can be a hit or miss proposition in this. Even though the CBSA webpage indicates that the service is offered, some offices will simply refuse or be unable to perform it for any number of reasons. Most often, the problem is that the agents are unfamiliar with the option to self-clear. My advice is to phone CBSA in Ottawa and ask to be connected to the local CBSA office you plan to use. Once connected to the local office, just ask them about the process of self clearing a personal shipment. You will find out quickly if that office will be able to help you.

UPS
The UPS representatives were, for the most part, reasonably pleasant. No one ever hung up on me or threatened to end a call or anything like that. I honestly think that getting mad at them is pointless. I heard the line about "you must be at the port of entry to self-clear" so often that I cannot escape the thought that they are all trained to say that, whether it's true or not. Like I said earlier, once the final UPS agent I spoke to on the phone realized that I had actually done what they insisted was not possible, she was genuinely surprised.

If anyone important from UPS is reading this: I would be far less inclined to be upset about a flat $5-$10 brokerage fee.

Thanks for reading and I hope I saved you some money.

If you have a story about this process or can shed more light on some of the details, feel free to comment. If you are from UPS or CBSA and I have gotten something incorrect here, also feel free to let me know.

This blog is not legal advice. It is a diary of my own experience and research. You cannot avoid paying legal duties and taxes on goods imported into Canada. This is not about avoiding taxes or duties. In fact, part of this process is paying them as required directly to a customs agent. This is about avoiding the UPS brokerage fee which is nothing more than a ridiculously large service charge paid directly to UPS for a service you neither asked for nor necessarily require.

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Labels:avoid ups brokerage fee canada international

19 comments:

Veroushka 17 March 2011 at 18:26

Wow, I really wish I had known this a few years ago. I ordered an item that cost less than $200, and it shipped with UPS. When it arrived they charged me a $100 brokerage fee, and wouldn't give me my package until I paid up. In fact, they told me it would immediately be returned to the sender if I didn't pay. The UPS carrier who delivered it seemed a bit embarrassed about it actually; I think he felt bad. I felt worse though.
I was a student at the time and I really couldn't afford to give UPS $100 for a service I didn't agree to. I called their customer service line, but I was told that it was all completely legal, and since I had given them the money and signed off on it I was out of luck.
I never used UPS again. Thanks for writing this.
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Yail Bloor 18 March 2011 at 08:17

You could always ship with FedEx, they only charge a 10$ brokerage fee
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Paul 18 March 2011 at 10:00

The brokerage fee can be worse than you think.
If you have insured an item like I did, my own radio transceiver, out for repair in California,insured for 500$ (remember this is my item bought and paid for).

The brokerage fee was based on the insured value.
and UPS ALWAYS collects HST on behalf of the Canadian goverment so I paid HST on a radio that I owned
Paul in Guelph ON
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Sarah John 12 February 2012 at 21:01

This posting on the Blog is so nice, I appreciate for your work. Thank you very much for your information, nice job keep it up.
broker customs
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Max T18 January 2013 at 21:37

nobrokerage,

Thank you very much for such an informative story. I tried to fight with UPS in 2011 in this regard. I live in Edmonton, I am an IT specialist but my hobby is car repairs/maintenance and so I order car parts very often. At first it was not to bad, when the items were grouped in 1 category: Auto Parts. 1 entry is +$4.50. Considering the orders at around $1000 the COD fees weren't significant.
But then, later, UPS got "somewhat" greedy. They started breaking down every possible car part into a separate category they could relate it to, to get as many categories listed as possible. I lost it when they classified the small plastic button from the seat belt (the buckle stopper) as a Safety Restraint/Seatbelt System and charged additional $4.50. The piece of plastic cost me 25 cents.
Unfortunately I was unsuccessful back then. They would throw their scripted answers all the time and every time I was transfered to supervisors, I had to argue over and over again and hear same lies. Then long conversations with CBSA, and back with UPS. I didn't know back then all the details and the further I was getting down their supervising hierarchy, the more different termas and stories I would hear. I gave up.

Yesterday I received a UPS InfoNotice for the car parts I bought. I paid $250 for a pair of control arms and 2 LED lights. The delivery via UPS Standard was around $27.
The C.O.D. due is... almost $75.

I am willing to follow your way. This time I want to get to the bottom of this. If you don't mind, I will be updating my day-by-day experience in the comments section..

Again, thanks a lot for a wonderful research and post.
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- nobrokerage 19 January 2013 at 10:29
  
  Max T, Thanks for your comment. Please do keep us updated with the outcome of your story. I haven't performed this process since I wrote this blog almost 2 years ago so I am curious if all the steps are still doable.

好兴致 · 发表于 2015-3-20 10:30:19

Reply

Max T22 January 2013 at 14:54

I removed my previous post since I forgot to mention a couple of things. The following is the updated post.
Ok, so here I go:

01/17/13
UPS InfoNotice: 1st Delivery Attempt.

01/18/13
Called UPS @ 1-800-258-4393 > option 1(for engligh) > option 0 (for agent).
Asked to be transfered to UPS Brokerage Department.
----------------------------------------------------------
I want to repeat what the author of this post has already said - save your time, ask the UPS rep to transfer you to the Brokerage Department.
----------------------------------------------------------

The Brokerage Department:

I was preapared for the worst - I had all the details running over and over again through my mind, all the CBSA documentation, info and procedures I could refer to at any time during the conversation.

The rep answered the phone and I told her that I wanted to self-clear the package myself. I also mentioned that I needed the Cargo Control Document and the Commercial Invoice emailed to me. The rep said: "Ok, no problem, just give me a couple of minutes to go through the procedure steps since this is an unusual request, we don't get them very often."

After 2-3 minutes she got back to me saing that she could find the Commercial Invoice but not the Manifest (Cargo Control Document) in their system. She also mentioned right away that this was weird since all the LVS packages are accompanied by the Cargo Control Documents.
Then she asked me to stay on hold for another 3 minutes.

After the hold, the rep returned to me. She said that she has placed a request in the system for _CBSA_ to send me the 2 documents. The documents were supposed to come in 2 business days.
I wanted to double check if it was the UPS or CBSA that was holding and was supposed to fax/email me these documents. The blog says it is UPS. The rep said it was CBSA.

This was the only concern I was left with after ending the conversation. Anyways, as per rep, the package was marked as "Self-Clear" and the request for emailing the documents to me was placed.

It is worth mentioning that when I asked the rep if the package was going to be sent back to the port of entry, she said: "I don't see the reason why it should go back to the port; it will just wait at the local warehouse waiting for pickup".

Another thing worth mentioning is that I was talking about clearing the package at CBSA office. By mistake, I said "clear at Port of Entry". The rep replied: "No, you don't have to go there. Just clear it at your local customs office". I was pleasantly surprised.

At the end of the day I saw another UPS InfoNotice for the 2nd Delivery Attempt. I had to wait the Sat, Sun to pass and then Mon and Tue (2 business days).
I didn't get anything emailed to me.

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Max T22 January 2013 at 15:29

01/22/2013

After not receiving any emails from either CBSA or UPS I called UPS again. Called the same number on the info notice: 1-800-258-4393 > option 1 (english) > enter my infonotice # > option 0 (agent).

I asked the agent what was the status of my package. She said "waiting for pickup, till Jan 25". If it wasnt picked up till Jan 25, the package would be sent back to the sender.
That was a surprise for me. I asked the agent to transfer me to the Brokerage Department. Got transfered..

Provided the Brokerage Department Rep with the InfoNotice# and asked the rep to go through the logs/comments on account, mentioning that I havent received any documents on my email yet.

The agent asked me if I didn't receive anything as of Jan 21 (yesterday), since that was what she had on the records. I said NO. The agent put me on hold. After some time, she told me she had resubmitted the request and the email should reach me the nex day (Jan 23).

I asked the agent if it was UPS or CBSA who was possessing the documents and supposed to send them to me.
The agent tried to explain (and this is where she lost me) that this depends on the delivery scenario (the author of this blog has also described them in Part 5):
1) I declare the self-clearing AFTER the package reached your door.
2) I declare/perform the self-clearing prior to UPS handing the papers to CBSA at the border, when the package enters the country.
This is at least how I understood it.

I also asked the agent about the hold for pickup till Jan 25. I explained that I was ready to self-clear 4 days ago, but I am still waiting for the documents, which is not under my control. The rep said I could call them to extend the hold period. She also mentioned that there were some fees associated with holding the package at their warehouse. If this is the case, I will find more details and post here.

So far, I am waiting for tomorrow, for the email.
I will keep you posted!
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Max T22 January 2013 at 15:35

Oh, and a quick update I forgot to mention (again..)
This is the direct phone number of the UPS Brokerage Department that the rep gave me:
1-888-520-9090

Also, this is the Fax number where the B15 form should be sent at (UPS):
1-506-447-3706

As per rep, this is the logical process I should follow after I have the stamped B15 form:

1) Send to the fax number from above (this is the UPS number)
2) Call the Brokerage Department and let them know that the fax of the stamped B15 has been sent.
3) The Brockerage department will compare the account# from the form B15 with their database, and mark the package as cleared.
4) I can pick up the package at hte UPS center.
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Max T23 January 2013 at 09:33

01/23/2013
Guess what?
Today I receive the e-mail from UPS with a Commercial Invoice attached.

"Please bring the attached invoice with tracking# 1Z4XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and any other documents you have for this shipment to your local customs. Pay your taxes there and obtain your B15 form from them"...

I have 2 more days till the package goes back to the sender... Getting the Cargo Control Document is tough... I even don't know who has it.
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Max T23 January 2013 at 22:52

01/23/2013
After writing back to UPS that I needed the Cargo Control Document, I got an email reply from UPS within 30 minutes. I was pleasantly surprised again.

The e-mail said the folowing:
"Hi Max,

I think there is some confusion here. It is my understanding that this only applies for shipments that are not released and are at the port of entry into Canada this is the procedure we use. In this case your goods have already cleared customs in Winnipeg and you are only “casual self accounting” for the goods and paying the taxes so we can remove the cod after you have the B15. In this case you should only need to bring your invoice to customs with your tracking#. We do not have a cargo control document to give you. For the first procedure you would have to be in Winnipeg and go to customs here.
I hope this helps you. Sorry for the confusion.

Also to add to that this is a Low value or “LVS” shipment they do not have manifests. Only High value “HVS” has a manifest and in the case of any high value we do not allow casual self accounting on those shipments it is only for LVS."

好兴致 · 发表于 2015-3-20 10:30:50

After this e-mail I called CBSA @ 1-800-461-9999 > Option 1 (english) > Option 1 (Personal matter) > Option 0(Agent)
The agent confirmed that the tracking number of the pakage + the commercial invoice is enough as far as the package documentation is concerned.

I also would like to mention that the first email with the commercial invoice said that I could bring the B15 form right to the pick-up facility and they could remove the COD tag right there. This is a new procedure and the facility may not know it yet very well. In that case I should ask for the supervisor and explain what I need.

The UPS representative that was helping me over e-mail was very profesional. I am very satisfied and surprised. You may have noticed that I keep saying here about the great UPS service. It was, indeed. And I am surprised myself, because compared to my experience from 2 years ago, when the UPS supervisor was literally insulting me over the phone, saying that I was stubborn and lacking any knowlege, and that I was frustrating everyone.... there is a huge difference.

So tomorrow, I am waking up at 6:00AM and going to the Airport because this is where the local CBSA office is. I have printed out the Commercial Invoice with the tracking number, checked my ID and money =)

Wish me luck!
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Max T24 January 2013 at 09:36

01/24/13
I am holding in my hands th form "B15-1(FLAT) (07)"! Finally.
In case anyone from Edmonton reads this - the CBSA office that you need to go to is NOT IN THE AIRPORT BUILDING. Save your time and outrageous parking costs. I spent 10-15 min in the airport to learn that there were 2 CBSA offices - one for travellers and another one, called "commercial", located outside the building, where the warehouses are.

After finding the office, I had to wait approximately 15 min although I was the only one there. The officer was finishing some other procedures.

So I brought with me only one document - the Commercial Invoice sent to me by UPS.
Also The UPS tracking number is required. It starts with 1Z 404 XXX XX XXXX XXXX. In my case the UPS tracking number was printed on the Commercial invoice itself.

The officer explained to me that indeed, there is a difference between the 2 scenarios that I mentioned above - when the package is at the UPS warehouse and when it is in the port of entry. From what I understood, if the package is in the port of entry and you self-clear the package, then you also need to provide the manifest with the unique shipment ID, so it can be sent to the port of entry. In my case however, UPS has already provided that document at the port of entry when the package was being imported. So now, all I needed to do is pay taxes and GST and "report" to UPS that all was taken care of so they could remove the COD charge.

This is what I am going to do right now. Scan and e-mail the B15 form.. Or, as my email from UPS rep said, I could just take the form to the warehouse and remove the COD and pick the package right there, at once..
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Max T24 January 2013 at 09:37

Just to add - for my 10-15 min in the airpot I payed $4.00

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nobrokerage24 January 2013 at 09:55

Hey Max, thanks a lot for taking the time to document your story. It sounds like you're almost there!
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Max T24 January 2013 at 21:31

Thanks nobrokerage! And I have the package!!! Yay!
01/24/2013

I arrived at UPS at 6:00PM, one hour before it closed.

I could have emailed the B15 to the UPS Brokerage Department throughout my work hours, but I decided to take the risk and try out their new UPS procedure which, according to UPS email to me, allowed us to bring the B15 document right to the pick-up facility. The local agents were supposed to photocopy/scan the B15 document, fax or email it to UPS Brokerage Department, remove the COD label themselves and hand the package to the customer.

As my gut was whispering to me the whole day, nobody at the facility knew about this new procedure. After presenting the tracking number, B15 and my ID the person at the counter said that I should have emailed/faxed the B15 to UPS Brok Dept so they could release the package from COD.

Since I was expecting such scenario, before leaving my work, I decided to print my email conversation with the UPS Brokerage Dept agent, where she was describing the procedure and what needed to be done if noone at pickup depot would know what to do (ask for the supervisor or contact the UPS Brok Dept).

I presented that email to the person at the counter and he called the UPS Brok Dept explaining the situation.

At one point the guy says "could you please explain this to the customer himself because I have a lineup growing here?" and passes the phone to me.

Now that was unexpected. Central UPS office not knowing the new procedure... oops!

The Brokerage Dept agent introdused himself and tried to explain me the old procedure. I told him about the new procedure and made the reference to my previous e-mail conversations, also giving the name of the person I was talking to. He asked me to wait on hold and got back to me after 2 minutes.

Then he said the following. This is important because the wrong interpretaion of the procedures on UPS side can lead to a lot of confusion. So he said:
"we don't hae any updates or new procedures in our system yet, but according to our current porocedures you should bring your B15 to CBSA and they must fax/email it to us and we will remove the COD charge". Doen't make too much sense, does it? Bringing the B15 to CBSA when I just got it from them? And then CBSA faxing/emailing UPS???
I explained this to the agent and he deicded to read (cite) the procedure as it was written in their system:
"the customer should bring the B15 to CENTER and the CENTER must fax/email it to UPS Brok Dept and remove the COD".

The CENTER... To me it clearly sounded that they meant the "

ick-up Center", not "CBSA"! Once I suggested that to the agent, he stopped for a sec and then asked me to pass the phone to the guy over the counter.
In another minute the phone conversation was over, my B15 was photocopied, COD label removed and package handed out to me.

The only thing I needed to provide was.. my signature =)
So now the package is with me and I am very happy that I finally made it. All thanks to you nobrokerage!

This is the end of my story, but it's just the beginning of plenty other self-clearance procedures, because now that I know it works, I hope I will never ever pay COD's anymore!
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Joshua Ma11 February 2013 at 11:41

Hi thank you for this site, I've learnt quite a bit. I just got a UPS InfoNotice informing me that I have to pay $101 in brokerage COD due. My package was worth $350. Outrageous!

I called UPS asking to self clear but they informed me of the cost break down of the COD due: $45 for tax, $40 for customs, and $16 for UPS. Is that right? Am I really paying that much for customs and that little for UPS?
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nobrokerage11 February 2013 at 12:02

Hi Joshua, all that is required for an item to be legally imported into Canada is that you have paid (and can show proof of payment of) the taxes and duties required by CBSA. I would assume that what they mean is that the tax amount due is calculated at $45, the duties are $40 and they say their fee is $16.

I don't know what you are shipping but to come up with the ACTUAL amounts, you should calculate the expected taxes and duties and see if they line up. In actual fact, there are very few items that incur a duty so pay particular attention to that number. If your research shows that no duty is required for your shipment, then everything apart from the tax is actually a UPS fee and their breakdown including the $45 'customs fee' seems to be in error.

Good luck!
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TorontoGirl14 March 2014 at 06:16

Hi! I wanted to say thank you for this blog post - it helped me out just recently. I hadn't had issues with UPS brokerage fees in a long time (the last time it happened I paid not knowing I had other options) but a package I ordered from the States arrived this past week with a $90 COD from UPS (value of package around $200). I was surprised but remembered that I'd heard if you refuse to pay and then call UPS may lower their fees. Then I googled it and found your post! I followed the instructions starting with calling the UPS brokerage department - they gave me no trouble at all! They had someone call me and then email me the required invoice with a page of instructions to follow. I then called CBSA to confirm which office could process my request - there is one downtown Toronto - so convenient! I dropped in, paid my HST, emailed the stamped B15 back to UPS and then called to follow up (without my call the package may have sat at the local UPS office for a while awaiting my pickup - but I have no way of driving there): I confirmed that my paid duty had been processed and the package will now arrive Monday with no money owing! I'm so impressed that this went so smoothly. Thanks for your help!
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Unknown17 May 2014 at 22:45

Does this work for CanadaPost as well?
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