标题: 戈尔巴乔夫20年后醒悟 西方在愚弄俄 [打印本页] 作者: dlstbwzg007 时间: 2009-9-8 18:50 标题: [评论]戈尔巴乔夫20年后醒悟 西方在愚弄俄 他总算明白了。
西方当时把他愚弄得够呛。作者: chineseguy 时间: 2009-9-8 18:59
二十年后才醒悟，IQ不高啊。作者: jim so 时间: 2009-9-8 20:44 标题: 这是前苏联人民的选择 相信再来一次, 没喝多的俄罗斯人还是会选择资本主义, 但有酒够喝的精英们会清醒地认识到失去的奴隶们再不可能回来了.
更可怕的是, 其他附属国家的奴隶们再不可能相信天上的月亮是饼了.作者: 新蛛 时间: 2009-9-8 20:58 标题: 此人最后悔的地方大概就是失去了权力 要求人民感恩，
再选他当政，
如此小气之人，
也难怪后来没人选他，
其实你做的最正确的事就是解体苏联，
解体一个集中营，
几乎所有的前苏联国家都会认为你是一个伟人，
至于当政这样的小事就不用耿耿于怀吧。作者: 新蛛 时间: 2009-9-8 21:06 标题: 中国共产党现在硬撑着 后果就是失去一切，
别看黄俄现在嘴硬，
还在梦游着前苏联这个大集中营，
这些奴才自己跑到西方国家做狗，
往两边吠，
梦想着十几亿人民做牛做马，
为专制独裁陪葬，
他们的图谋是注定失败的。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-8 21:08 标题: 回复：早知如此，何必当初。 You feel sad for the Russians, but they don't. The Russian people made a choice of democracy and freedom, loud and clear, no one wants to return to the old Soviet Union. The Russian communist party still participate in the election every year, but hardly anybody vote for them now. Of course, Gorbachev feels bad since he no longer has the power, that's quite understandable.
拜托, 中国千万别出个巴氏人物! 自乱阵脚, 万劫不复!作者: aaazzz 时间: 2009-9-9 09:46
俄罗斯现在不是共产党执政。但搞的不是和原共产党一样的形式么？叶立钦下台后指定接班人普京，普京又指定接班人梅德韦杰夫。西方国家那个不说俄罗斯是个独裁国家。民猪选举也就是忽悠老百姓。民猪加拿大连个苗大伟都搞不定，几个51右派们还得意个鸟啊。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-9 11:39 标题: 回复：回复：回复：早知如此，何必当初。 Can you provide us a link to such a survey saying most Russians prefer to live under communism? or you are just another person who try to put your own words into the Russian people's mouth. Talking about the average income and the gap between rich and poor, I don't know what the exact numbers are, but I don't think China is doing any better than Russian on these problems.
if you have seen recent surveys, actually, most Russian citizens today prefer the old system to the "democratic" one they have today, because most Russian today live in poverty while only a few have become super rich.作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-9 12:20
叶立钦下台后指定接班人普京，普京又指定接班人梅德韦杰 -- Oh yeah, just like Clinton gave the Presidency to Bush, Bush gave it to Obama, sort of thing.
http://zwwwxy.bokee.com/5565313.html作者: mw2006third 时间: 2009-9-10 02:39
苏共自赫鲁晓夫上台以后，走修正主义道路，整个苏共尤其是上层变成了脱离人民的官僚集团，更致命的错误是和美国搞军备竞赛，所以苏联的解体是必然的，毛主席早在60年代就高瞻远瞩地指出了苏共修正主义的错误将会导致苏联解体。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 07:37
Well, I waited one day, still no one posts any link to a survey that says most Russians today actually prefer to live under communist Soviet Union. Of course, there're a few people missing the Soviet era, there're some people in China missing the Mao era as well, but there's absolutely nothing indicates they are the majority. Many Russians like Putin, but Putin is a democratically-elected leader, not one annointed by Stalin, is he? The world had about 40 communist countries in 1989, it only has 5 today. And not single one of these 35 countries want to go back to the old time. Communist dictatorship is already in the garbage of history. This is a historical trend that none of you are able to fight, using the words from your dear leader Mao "Your resistence is futile'作者: 专治变态人格 时间: 2009-9-10 08:38
Well, I waited one day, still no one posts any link to a survey that says most Russians today actually prefer to live under communist Soviet Union. Of course, there're a few people missing the Soviet era, there're some people in China missing the Mao era as well, but there's absolutely nothing indicates they are the majority. Many Russians like Putin, but Putin is a democratically-elected leader, not one annointed by Stalin, is he? The world had about 40 communist countries in 1989, it only has 5 today. And not single one of these 35 countries want to go back to the old time. Communist dictatorship is already in the garbage of history. This is a historical trend that none of you are able to fight, using the words from your dear leader Mao "Your resistence is futile'
There are always some garbage pickers who love garbage. You cannot help them.作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 08:42
I don't bother to argue with you. This is a free country, this includes the freedom to choose a language that I can write and type quicker. Your don't have to read it if you don't want to, this is your freedom.
Now, I just have a very simple request: can someone show me a link to an official survey saying that the majority of Russians today prefer to live under communist Soviet Union, not democracy?
我一直都不想回应你，本来今天也不打算回应你。但，你似乎在欺负着一些英语不太好的人，以便减低理解的人数，进而减低反击你的人。你这种挺低劣的、也挺可笑的愚民策略和手法，我必须点破之，以免正、反两方面的大家在这都跟吃了苍蝇似的恶心。
我先不跟你交流这些政论，也先不说你的说法不值得一击。
你如果想加入近来讨论，你就用你那流利的中文吧！就别来用这些简单的、又不地道的儿童式的中国英语来乎悠大家了。没有人会佩服你。因为，英语不强的人看着吃力，而稍有初级英语能力的人呢，又没法从中长进英语而觉得你做作和恶心。看着你边查字典、边想东西着写，我都觉得难受。另外，这里也不是学英语、实践英语的好场所和好对象，你真的是找错地方了。而且，来这华人成堆的论坛卖弄英语，算啥本事呀？？？？
YOUR ENGLISH SOUNDS TOO SIMPLE、TOO CHILDISH、TOO NAIVE AND， ESPECIALLY， IT SOUNDS A LOT MORE CHINESE THAN ENGLISH。PLS DON'T FOOL US AROUND。YOU ARE JUST MAKING ME LAUGH AT。THERE IS NO ONE HERE WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN WHETHER YOU KNOW ENGLISH OR NOT，BUT THE POINT YOU WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT。OK？
我如果不稍写两句英语，你可能真要把大家当文盲和无知了。
你就知趣点吧，别再卖弄了！作者: 专治变态人格 时间: 2009-9-10 08:44
这论坛上明白人这么多，谁能给我指点迷津？既然俄国和东欧人民怀念共产党政权，为什么不把他选回来执政？作者: 专治变态人格 时间: 2009-9-10 08:57 标题: 普京：人民的信任才是最大财富 普京虽然曾任前苏联秘密警察头子，但是他现在并不是共产党员而是统一俄罗斯党主席。拿他治理俄国的成绩给中共贴金好像也是牛头不对马嘴。
妻子柳德米拉１９５７年出生于波罗的海南岸的加里宁格勒，毕业于加里宁格勒第八中学，酷爱戏剧，喜欢文体活动。柳德米拉中学毕业后考入加里宁格勒工学院，因不喜欢工科而在两年后主动辍学，２０世纪８０年代初在加里宁格勒航空队当空姐。后进入列宁格勒国立大学语言系学习西班牙语。曾在俄罗斯的布良斯克市任大学教师。２４岁时到列宁格勒度短假，在那里举行的音乐会上与普京相识。１９８３年７月２８日与普京在涅瓦河的小轮船上举行婚礼。他们有两个女儿：卡佳和玛莎。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 08:58
Now, they will reply you with a 'conspiracy theory': Because the CIA prevents them from voting the communists back, or they have been brainwahed by 'western media'. See, I know their way of thinking.
这论坛上明白人这么多，谁能给我指点迷津？既然俄国和东欧人民怀念共产党政权，为什么不把他选回来执政？作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 09:35
Again, you like to assume thing. You assume the Russian people all like to live in communist Soviet era, not democracy. You also assume 51 readers can't or don't want to read English posts. I don't think either of these assumptions are true. Anyway, I don't think my choice of language is a point of discussion here, we are talking about Russia, aren't we?
没错。这是自由的社会和自由的时代，你可以选用任何语言。而英语更是这里的官方语言。然而，这也分清你是在跟什么语言的人在说话和你的听者对象是谁。如果你是对着不甚懂英语的华人说英语，而又对着不懂中文的人说中文，那么，你就是在胡弄和愚弄人家，对人家不尊重。跟你所倡导的自由民主是相差十万八千里的。这就是你这种人的所谓“民主自由”：能骗就骗，能蒙就蒙，然后，再冠之以“民主自由”标签。这也正是没什么人回应你的贴的原因，而并非你讲得很在理。
所以，你这种所作所为，即使再有理，也没法让人家接受和感动。更何况是胡说八道了。
哈哈哈哈。作者: 哪吒 时间: 2009-9-10 09:38
Well, I waited one day, still no one posts any link to a survey that says most Russians today actually prefer to live under communist Soviet Union. Of course, there're a few people missing the Soviet era, there're some people in China missing the Mao era as well, but there's absolutely nothing indicates they are the majority. Many Russians like Putin, but Putin is a democratically-elected leader, not one annointed by Stalin, is he? The world had about 40 communist countries in 1989, it only has 5 today. And not single one of these 35 countries want to go back to the old time. Communist dictatorship is already in the garbage of history. This is a historical trend that none of you are able to fight, using the words from your dear leader Mao "Your resistence is futile'
I give you one link.
When the Communists were in power, we had no way of knowing what ordinary Russians thought because all the media, without exception, were controlled by the Communist Party and expressed its interests. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the situation in this respect has undergone drastic change. Russians have adopted with great enthusiasm western methods of public opinion polling and we now have reliable information about their thoughts and wants on almost every subject. The leading polling organization is the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion, directed by Iurii Levada. The results from this and other such institutes are regularly reported in their own publications as well as in the popular daily, IZVESTIA. The information provided below dates from 1999-2004.
Unfortunately, the results of these polls are not encouraging.They indicate a preference for order over freedom, suspicion of democracy and the free market, and nostalgia for the Soviet Union. Russians emerge as a people who mistrust everyone except their closest family and friends, as individuals who, in the words of one opinion survey, live in “trenches” feeling surrounded on all sides by enemies.
As a consequence of these factors, today’s Russians view democracy as a fraud: 78 percent of respondents in a 2003 survey said that democracy is a facade concealing a regime in which real power is exercised by rich and powerful cliques. Only 22 percent express a preference for democracy, whereas 53 percent positively dislike it. 52 percent believe multiparty elections do more harm than good. Altogether Russians feel they have no influence over government, whether national or local, and hence are quite prepared to live under a one-party regime.
.................
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangl ... hink-and-want/2988/作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 10:05
nostalgia for the Soviet Union -- the word nostalgia is the feeling of missing something good about the old time. For example, when you pay a huge amount of money for the apartment unit today, you may miss the Mao era when the government gave you free apartment, free health care. But if you are really allowed to make a decision whether to restore communist Soviet Union or Mao's China, people will think carefully and say 'wait, that's not what I want, the situation today is not as good as I expected, but Soviet Union and Mao's time were even worse'. That explains why none of the former Russian and East European countries go back to communism even though some people there do complain about the current situation. As for China, it has already been embarked on a road of capitalist reform for 30 years, this is a road of no return, it's just a matter of time before it becomes a democracy, 'your resistence is futile'.
[QUOTE="哪吒"]
I give you one link.
When the Communists were in power, we had no way of knowing what ordinary Russians thought because all the media, without exception, were controlled by the Communist Party and expressed its interests. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the situation in this respect has undergone drastic change. Russians have adopted with great enthusiasm western methods of public opinion polling and we now have reliable information about their thoughts and wants on almost every subject. The leading polling organization is the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion, directed by Iurii Levada. The results from this and other such institutes are regularly reported in their own publications as well as in the popular daily, IZVESTIA. The information provided below dates from 1999-2004.
Unfortunately, the results of these polls are not encouraging.They indicate a preference for order over freedom, suspicion of democracy and the free market, and nostalgia for the Soviet Union. Russians emerge as a people who mistrust everyone except their closest family and friends, as individuals who, in the words of one opinion survey, live in “trenches” feeling surrounded on all sides by enemies.作者: 哪吒 时间: 2009-9-10 10:20
I give you one link.
When the Communists were in power, we had no way of knowing what ordinary Russians thought because all the media, without exception, were controlled by the Communist Party and expressed its interests. Since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the situation in this respect has undergone drastic change. Russians have adopted with great enthusiasm western methods of public opinion polling and we now have reliable information about their thoughts and wants on almost every subject. The leading polling organization is the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion, directed by Iurii Levada. The results from this and other such institutes are regularly reported in their own publications as well as in the popular daily, IZVESTIA. The information provided below dates from 1999-2004.
Unfortunately, the results of these polls are not encouraging.They indicate a preference for order over freedom, suspicion of democracy and the free market, and nostalgia for the Soviet Union. Russians emerge as a people who mistrust everyone except their closest family and friends, as individuals who, in the words of one opinion survey, live in “trenches” feeling surrounded on all sides by enemies.
发现你也就是个死脑筋。一个社会体制不是说变就变的，需要内、外多种因素同时作用才行。
你一直在这里嚷啷着，说没有民意调查结果可以显示“左左”的观点，我给了你，你应该满足了。我们只能就事论事，否则没有底。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 10:24
一个社会体制不是说变就变的，需要内、外多种因素同时作用才行 --- OK, we agree on this one, when the time is right, China will become a democracy, I'm patient.
发现你也就是个死脑筋。一个社会体制不是说变就变的，需要内、外多种因素同时作用才行。
你一直在这里嚷啷着，说没有民意调查结果可以显示“左左”的观点，我给了你，你应该满足了。我们只能就事论事，否则没有底。作者: 哪吒 时间: 2009-9-10 10:29
一个社会体制不是说变就变的，需要内、外多种因素同时作用才行 --- OK, we agree on this one, when the time is right, China will become a democracy, I'm patient.
As what we know, Mr. Putin's Russia is not the Soviet Union. For most Russians, life is freer now than it was in the old days.
However, a new autocracy now governs Russia. Behind a facade of democracy lies a centralized authority that has deployed a nationwide cadre of loyalists that is not reluctant to swat down those who challenge the ruling party.
Please see the article below from NYTimes.
[U]Putin’s Iron Grip on Russia Suffocates Opponents [/U]
NIZHNY NOVGOROD, Russia — Shortly before parliamentary elections in December, foremen fanned out across the sprawling GAZ vehicle factory here, pulling aside assembly-line workers and giving them an order: vote for President Vladimir V. Putin’s party or else. They were instructed to phone in after they left their polling places. Names would be tallied, defiance punished.
The city’s children, too, were pressed into service. At schools, teachers gave them pamphlets promoting “Putin’s Plan” and told them to lobby their parents. Some were threatened with bad grades if they failed to attend “Children’s Referendums” at polling places, a ploy to ensure that their parents would show up and vote for the ruling party.
Around the same time, volunteers for an opposition party here, the Union of Right Forces, received hundreds of calls at all hours, warning them to stop working for their candidates. Otherwise, you will be hurt, the callers said, along with the rest of your family.
Over the past eight years, in the name of reviving Russia after the tumult of the 1990s, Mr. Putin has waged an unforgiving campaign to clamp down on democracy and extend control over the government and large swaths of the economy. He has suppressed the independent news media, nationalized important industries, smothered the political opposition and readily deployed the security services to carry out the Kremlin’s wishes.
While those tactics have been widely recognized, they have been especially heavy-handed at the local level, in far-flung places like Nizhny Novgorod, 250 miles east of Moscow. On the eve of a presidential election in Russia that was all but fixed in December, when Mr. Putin selected his close aide, Dmitri A. Medvedev, as his successor, Nizhny Novgorod stands as a stark example of how Mr. Putin and his followers have established what is essentially a one-party state.
Mr. Putin’s Russia is not the Soviet Union. For most Russians, life is freer now than it was in the old days. Criticism of the Kremlin is tolerated, as long as it is not done in any broadly organized way, and access to the Internet is unfettered. The economy, with its abundance of consumer goods and heady rate of growth, bears little resemblance to the one under Communism.
Still, as was made plain in dozens of interviews with political leaders, officials and residents of Nizhny Novgorod over several weeks, a new autocracy now governs Russia. Behind a facade of democracy lies a centralized authority that has deployed a nationwide cadre of loyalists that is not reluctant to swat down those who challenge the ruling party. Fearing such retribution, many of the people interviewed for this article asked not to be identified.
The government has closed newspapers in St. Petersburg and raided political party offices in Siberia. It was hardly unusual when in Samara, in the nation’s center, organized crime officers charged an opposition campaign official with financial crimes shortly before the December parliamentary elections and froze the party’s bank accounts.
Here in this historic region on the Volga River, Mr. Putin’s allies now control nearly all the offices, and elections have become a formality. And that is just as it should be, they said.
“In my opinion, at a certain stage, like now, it is not only useful, it is even necessary — we are tired of democratic twists and turns,” said the leader of Mr. Putin’s party in Nizhny Novgorod, Sergei G. Nekrasov. “It may sound sacrilegious, but I would propose to suspend all this election business for the time being, at least for managerial positions.”
Mr. Putin, who intends to remain in power by becoming prime minister under Mr. Medvedev, has in recent days declared that Russia has a healthy democracy, a renewed sense of national pride and a prominent role on the world stage. His supporters in Nizhny Novgorod point to his high approval ratings as evidence that his policies work.
A refrain often heard here and across Russia is that the distressing years right after Communism’s collapse left people craving stability and a sturdy economy far more than Western-style democracy. These days, they care little if elections are basically uncontested as long as a strong leader is in charge.
“There is some hope for us now,” said Nina Aksyonova, 68, a Nizhny Novgorod resident, explaining Mr. Putin’s popularity.
Propaganda Onslaught
Nizhny Novgorod, an industrial center with 1.3 million residents, was known as Gorky during the Communist era, when it was closed to foreigners and was home to the dissident physicist Andrei D. Sakharov, who was sent into internal exile here. After the Soviet Union’s collapse, it became a hotbed of liberalism, earning international recognition after officials sought to jettison the old sclerotic economic structure and embrace what were considered far-sighted political reforms.
Today, authority flows from the Kremlin to a regional governor appointed by Mr. Putin, who abolished the election of governors in Russia in 2004. The governor, Valery P. Shantsev, was brought in from Moscow and is charged with running the region and ensuring that Mr. Putin’s party, United Russia, wins elections. The lines between the government and party have become so blurred that on election day in December, regional election commission members wore large United Russia badges.
Boris Y. Nemtsov became a political star in Russia and the West as governor of Nizhny Novgorod and deputy prime minister in the 1990s, but in recent months he and his opposition party have taken a battering here. Regional and national television stations, controlled by the Kremlin and its surrogates, have repeatedly attacked him — calling him everything from a corrupt bureaucrat to a traitor.
“His career has been accompanied by scandals,” went a typical report on the popular Channel One right before the December elections. “It was the elderly who were the first to feel the results of the work of Nemtsov’s government on their purses. Pensions dropped to the lowest level in all Russia’s history. Boris Nemtsov used to gather the press just to say that he did not care who the pensioners, deprived of money, would vote for. According to the plans of young reformers, only the strongest were supposed to live until the next century.”
Meanwhile, a different kind of propaganda war was being waged on the streets. Russia has relatively conservative attitudes toward homosexuality, and all autumn long Nizhny Novgorod was blanketed with tens of thousands of leaflets saying that Mr. Nemtsov’s liberal, pro-Western opposition party, the Union of Right Forces, ardently favored gay rights and employed canvassers with AIDS. Neither was true.
The leaflets often included the name and phone number of a leader of the party’s regional candidate slate, Andrei Osipenko. Some had condoms attached and announced offers to send supporters to a gay-pride event in Amsterdam.
Intimidation and violence came next. Businesses cut off donations after receiving threats from government officials, said Sergei Veltishchev, an organizer for the Union of Right Forces. Someone obtained the confidential list of party members — the party officials say they suspect that it was the security services — and hundreds of menacing phone calls were made to volunteers, saying they or their families would be hurt if they helped the party.
The party was refused advertising space on everything from billboards to newspapers to television. When Mr. Nemtsov tried to campaign in Nizhny Novgorod in the fall, no one would rent him a hall. In November, the party headquarters were ransacked and spray-painted with profanities and graffiti that called it the “Party of Gays.”
A few weeks before the elections, Mr. Osipenko gave up, renouncing his party at a news conference that was heavily covered on state-controlled television and had the feel of the Stalinist-era public confessions that followed show trials. Other party officials did the same.
The party’s remaining candidates in the region were too fearful to campaign.
“You begin to think: you have a family, you have a business, and you may value this significantly more than a political career,” said Artur Nazarenko, an official with the Union of Right Forces. The party, once a regional power, received only 1 percent of the vote in the parliamentary elections, both in the Nizhny Novgorod region and nationally.
Other opposition figures in Nizhny Novgorod have been treated just as harshly over the past year. Leaders of a loose coalition called Other Russia have been repeatedly arrested, with some charged with inciting terrorism. When the group held a demonstration here last March, local television stations tried to scare away the public, labeling the event a gathering of either racist skinheads or gay rights advocates.
“Now about the so-called opposition, though there is a big doubt that it exists at all in the country,” an announcer asserted on the Seti NN channel. “They have been acting in violation of the law.”
The mayor of Nizhny Novgorod, Vadim Bulavinov, a United Russia leader, said the opposition had failed because it was poorly organized.
“If an organization is weak because people do not want to work for it or to help it, why should United Russia be blamed for that?” the mayor said. “I think that if the opposition parties want to find out who is guilty, they need to look in the mirror.”
Attacks on the Press
With the opposition suppressed in the months before the December elections, anti-Kremlin activism coalesced around independent newspapers and nonprofit groups, making them another target of the security forces.
In August, police officers broke down the door to the local offices of Novaya Gazeta, an opposition paper that had criticized Governor Shantsev and Mayor Bulavinov. Investigators accused the paper of using unlicensed software and hauled away its computers, shutting down the paper until after the elections.
Prosecutors also closed or prevented the distribution of two other regional newspapers, Leninskaya Smena and Trud, and conducted aggressive inquiries into the finances of several others. “It is a demonstration of force: ‘If you behave wrong, we will punish you,’ ” said Zakhar Prilepin, Novaya Gazeta’s editor in Nizhny Novgorod.
The regional prosecutor, Valery Maksimenko, did not respond to several requests for comment.
On the day of the Novaya Gazeta raid, the police removed computers from the offices of the Foundation to Support Tolerance, a nonprofit group that has been harassed for four years after criticizing the Kremlin and the war in Chechnya.
The authorities seem especially distrustful of the foundation because it receives money from the National Endowment for Democracy, an American nonprofit group financed by the United States government. The Kremlin has blamed Western pro-democracy groups for fomenting popular uprisings in Ukraine, Georgia and elsewhere in recent years, and vowed that that sort of thing would never happen in Russia.
The Federal Security Service, known by its initials in Russian, F.S.B., has interrogated the tolerance foundation’s workers, family members and friends. Its leaders, Stanislav Dmitriyevsky and Oksana Chelysheva, have received death threats. And as part of a smear campaign, the Volga regional television station showed Russian soldiers being beheaded in Chechnya and said the group had justified such killings.
In October, when the foundation held a memorial for Anna Politkovskaya, an opposition journalist killed in 2006, several foreign human rights advocates were arrested in Nizhny Novgorod. The police again raided the foundation’s offices, and the authorities froze its bank accounts, saying it supported terrorism.
“The ruling elite nowadays has no ideology,” Ms. Chelysheva said. “Their only aim is to obtain as much power as possible, to keep this power, by whatever means, and to profiteer off this power. In this respect, these people, who are so cynical, are much more dangerous than was the Communist Party of the U.S.S.R.”
The group had been called the Russian-Chechen Friendship Society, and it focused on exposing what it deemed human rights violations in the Russian war against separatists in Chechnya. But it ran afoul of the Kremlin, which deemed its work as little more than collaboration with the enemy.
Prosecutors accused the society of extremism and shut it down after it republished letters from two Chechen separatist leaders. Mr. Dmitriyevsky was convicted of inciting ethnic hatred and received a suspended prison sentence.
A Push for Legitimacy
While the Kremlin has succeeded in discrediting and stifling opposition parties, it has nonetheless faced a predicament of its own making. Elections draw little public interest now that they are essentially noncompetitive, and leaders of the governing party fear a low turnout. If relatively few people vote, then Mr. Putin’s claim to a widespread following could be called into question. So the authorities have also focused their energies on getting people to the polls.
Though Mayor Bulavinov and Mr. Nekrasov, the United Russia leader, said residents were not compelled to support the party, numerous interviews in the city and a review of municipal records indicated otherwise. It was clear that strong-arm tactics were common before the December elections in Nizhny Novgorod, and the opposition said it expected them again before the presidential election on March 2.
At the GAZ vehicle factory, known for its Volga sedan, workers were not only ordered to vote and then phone in from the polling place afterward: some had to obtain absentee ballots and fill them out in front of their bosses.
“If you don’t vote for United Russia, it will be very bad,” a worker named Aleksandr recalled, characterizing the pressure on the rank and file.
The coercive voter drive clearly had the desired effect, in the Kremlin’s view at least. After the election, the GAZ president, Nikolai Pugin, who is a senior United Russia leader and a regional lawmaker, announced that nearly 80 percent of his workers had voted, far higher than the city’s overall turnout, 51 percent. The Kremlin rewarded Mr. Pugin by making one of his workers a deputy in the federal Parliament.
Asked this month about the high turnout, Mr. Pugin said in an interview that his workers had voted freely. “People see positive changes and as a result, they express their opinion,” he said.
The public schools also were caught up in the campaign. Parents at some schools were ordered to attend mandatory meetings with representatives of United Russia, and the children were used to drag their parents to the polls.
“It was the same scenario at all the schools,” a teacher said. “And it was all from the city’s leadership. The school directors were given instructions, and they carried them out.”
Regional officials were vigilant about developments at local universities, particularly two of the largest, Lobachevsky State and Volga State. Students said they were warned not to join marches sponsored by the Other Russia coalition. And they said that before the elections, administrators issued a threat: if you do not vote for the ruling party, you will be evicted from your dorms.
“Everyone was frightened, and our group, in full, went and voted, like a line of soldiers marching,” said a Volga State student.
Administrators at both universities said the students’ statements about pressure were false.
Yet it did not stop with the voting.
Shortly after election day, several hundred Lobachevsky students were told that they were being bused to Moscow, but the university would not say why. When they were let off near Red Square, they found themselves among a huge throng of people.
It was only then that they realized that they had become unwilling participants in a rally sponsored by Nashi, a fiercely pro-Kremlin youth group, to celebrate United Russia’s triumph and to congratulate Mr. Putin.
本来不想跟你聊了，
发现你太逗了，
居然比成金子和钻石了，
你不觉得恶心？
当代世界无论在科技还是在制度模式上，
做过什么贡献没有，
跟中国古代相差太远了吧，
还有资格破四旧，摧毁中国文化呢。
你上一贴居然把爱国贼等同于华人，
也太好笑了吧，
还搞出几句文言出来显摆什么呢？
看线装书长大的？看你也没这个能耐吧！
你就别来这一套断章取义，声东击西的老把戏了，
别把自己当成老学究了，积累笑料而已！作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-10 14:00
Your assumption again: the Russian people are extremely upset because the Soviet Union disintegrated into several smaller countries. In fact, they couldn't care less about those countries that shouldn't belong to Russia in the first place. Those are the countries that were illegally occupied by Stalin after the WWII and Russians have no problem letting them go. China's situation is different from Russia, so seperation is not likely to happen after it becomes democracy.
此物是从猪退化来的。IQ为0。不必跟它一般见识。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-11 09:42
Well, looks like some people here eagerly hope that Russia can turn back into the communist Soviet Union, form a red alliance with China and beat the West. Funny thing is that the same people also work hard everyday to contribute to a western capitalist country, a US and NATO ally. They have absolutely no problem that their tax dollars are being used to bomb civilians in Afganistan and Iraq, to support spying activities against China and Russia, and fund the 'western media' that spread rumors and cause trouble in their beloved homeland. That's my point, for those hypocrites who never practise what they preach, you can't really take any of their words seriously.作者: aaazzz 时间: 2009-9-11 14:15
Well, looks like some people here eagerly hope that Russia can turn back into the communist Soviet Union, form a red alliance with China and beat the West. Funny thing is that the same people also work hard everyday to contribute to a western capitalist country, a US and NATO ally. They have absolutely no problem that their tax dollars are being used to bomb civilians in Afganistan and Iraq, to support spying activities against China and Russia, and fund the 'western media' that spread rumors and cause trouble in their beloved homeland. That's my point, for those hypocrites who never practise what they preach, you can't really take any of their words seriously.
First, no one want Russia "turn back in the communist Soviet Union". Who cares? It's a show for Chinese government to learn a lesson.
2nd, we live in Canada, use the Canadian resources; tease Canadian system, support spying activities against Canada...
3rd, you have absolutely no problem that your tax dollars are being used to support Canadian government to send Finance Minister, Industry Minister, and other delegation to China to expand the trade relationship, exchange billions and billions of Goods with a communist China. You, as a hypocrite who never practise what you preach, nobody is really take any of your words seriously. 作者: 共产党 时间: 2009-9-11 18:39 标题: 回复：回复：回复：回复：回复：中华人民共和国宪法写地也很好 先不说这条文有没有用，是你说俄罗斯的宪法写地好，所以我说中国的宪法写地也很好。
你这家伙也太缺德了吧，讨论归讨论， 你这样说别人， 真是连猪都不如.作者: 扳大轮 时间: 2009-9-17 15:08
戈大哥被老美卖了，还帮着老美数钱，戈大哥好高尚啊！作者: 桃木钉 时间: 2009-9-17 15:29
Well, I waited one day, still no one posts any link to a survey that says most Russians today actually prefer to live under communist Soviet Union. Of course, there're a few people missing the Soviet era, there're some people in China missing the Mao era as well, but there's absolutely nothing indicates they are the majority. Many Russians like Putin, but Putin is a democratically-elected leader, not one annointed by Stalin, is he? The world had about 40 communist countries in 1989, it only has 5 today. And not single one of these 35 countries want to go back to the old time. Communist dictatorship is already in the garbage of history. This is a historical trend that none of you are able to fight, using the words from your dear leader Mao "Your resistence is futile'
世界在不断演化，现在的共产党和以前的也很不一样，共产主义或社会主义的定义也在不断改变。你不会以发展的观点看问题是你自己的局限性。别说5个共产党国家，哪怕这个世界剩下一个社会主义国家，主义之争就在继续，现在定论谁是赢家你不嫌太早？事情总是可能随时翻盘的。你说普金是民选的总统，但你似乎不知到选举在很多国家是可以被操纵和控制的，而且金钱总是对任何国家的选举起决定性的作用。
我想人们不愿回你的贴子是因为你用的英文太干涩，很多用词不符合英文习惯，谈不上特别chinglish，但是很不地道。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-17 18:37
世界在不断演化，现在的共产党和以前的也很不一样 -- I agree, the Chinese communist party no longer believe in communism today. All capitalists are welcome to join the 'communist' party. What kind of 'communist' party is that?
另外，我只是五一的一个过客， 大部分时间都是旁观者，只是看不惯你的丑恶嘴脸，
路见不平，拔刀相助。我有我的专业工作，每天要工作学习和欣赏加拿大的人和事
以及美丽的自然风光。不会和你这种枪手胡搅蛮缠，浪费我的脑细胞。要找我辩论，
恕不奉陪。你还是去找别人求败去吧。作者: aaazzz 时间: 2009-9-18 11:53
世界在不断演化，现在的共产党和以前的也很不一样 -- I agree, the Chinese communist party no longer believe in communism today. All capitalists are welcome to join the 'communist' party. What kind of 'communist' party is that?
So what? Why do you care?作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-18 21:51
Why do I care? Like Dr. Martin Luther King says: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". The more influence China has, the more likely its bad behaviors would threaten the rest of world.
So what? Why do you care?作者: aaazzz 时间: 2009-9-19 19:46
Why do I care? Like Dr. Martin Luther King says: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". The more influence China has, the more likely its bad behaviors would threaten the rest of world.
What are you talking about? You said that "All capitalists are welcome to join the 'communist' party". Is this a good thing for the world. Communist Party is just the name. It does the same thing as the Conservative, Liberal, Republican party. You should feel happy about it.作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-9-20 09:23
No matter it's called communist party or capitalist party or whatever party, its characterics as a dictatorship do not change. Does the Conservative party throws the Liberals and other opposition party members to jail? does it control all medias and not allow any criticisms? Does it claim to be the Mother of all Canadians and anyone critizes its policy hurts Canada's national interests and hurts the feeling of all Canadians? If so, I would consider moving to another country.
What are you talking about? You said that "All capitalists are welcome to join the 'communist' party". Is this a good thing for the world. Communist Party is just the name. It does the same thing as the Conservative, Liberal, Republican party. You should feel happy about it.作者: 东方华 时间: 2009-10-24 12:12 标题: 回复：回复：普京：人民的信任才是最大财富 无论起名词是什么党，只要其统治方式跟以前无异。则也一样是专制。换个方式说，中共眼下的社会主义制度的发展方式，已在不断地与资本主义制度无甚大异议。
这就是人家跟你说的换汤不换药的说法。你得看全了人家的回应，再做反应为宜。
再加上你主题也说了“人民的信任才是最大财富”。你知道吗？在中国，国人目前最信任的政党还是中共呢！否则，咋会在这个论坛上都形成着比你这种人的绝大多数呀？
呱唧呱唧 :clap:作者: 桃木钉 时间: 2009-10-26 14:51
Why do I care? Like Dr. Martin Luther King says: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". The more influence China has, the more likely its bad behaviors would threaten the rest of world.
你所引用的话，是Martin Luther King所说过的最错的一句。这是一个借口，好让自称为公正的人合法地攻击一个被称为不公正的人。现实情况也是如此，强权总是以最大的声音自称为公正，正如美国界定别国是邪恶轴心一样，其实美国才是公认的邪恶轴心。如果世界各国都向美国看齐，人类就自取灭亡了。作者: 桃木钉 时间: 2009-10-26 15:07
No matter it's called communist party or capitalist party or whatever party, its characterics as a dictatorship do not change. Does the Conservative party throws the Liberals and other opposition party members to jail? does it control all medias and not allow any criticisms? Does it claim to be the Mother of all Canadians and anyone critizes its policy hurts Canada's national interests and hurts the feeling of all Canadians? If so, I would consider moving to another country.
你的政治的看法和你的英文水平一样天真。如果美国入侵加拿大，你认为保守党能带领大家抵抗侵略者吗？同样，如果加拿大有14亿人口，那国会岂不是要有上万个议员？大家的国情不同决定了政体的不同。最重要的是，执政者是否得到广大本国民众的支持。这个世界企图瓜分中国达150年，从抵制奥运就可以看出这种企图依然广泛存在，中国人民很清楚这一点。只要世界瓜分中国的心不死，中共就依然是代表大多数中国人利益的集体，也就会得到民众的支持。你所谓的独裁，在中国叫党内民主，也是大多数中国人支持至少是并不反对的政治理念，它不仅在中国行的通，还受到中国人民要求独立自主的观念所保护。至于你是否看得起或气愤到吐血都无所谓，那就是事实。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-10-26 15:12
美国才是公认的邪恶轴心 -- Of course, your beloved Chinese government does not agree this view, otherwise, why does China give US billions of $ every year to expand its military operations all over the world? why does it use up all its resources to supply cheap products for American consumers? why does it condemn and agree to sanction North Korea and Iran for their nuclear programs? why was it one of the first governments that recognise the new Iraqi and Afgan governments installed by US military? There's only one explanation, US and China are both in this axis of evil.
你所引用的话，是Martin Luther King所说过的最错的一句。这是一个借口，好让自称为公正的人合法地攻击一个被称为不公正的人。现实情况也是如此，强权总是以最大的声音自称为公正，正如美国界定别国是邪恶轴心一样，其实美国才是公认的邪恶轴心。如果世界各国都向美国看齐，人类就自取灭亡了。作者: 桃木钉 时间: 2009-10-27 17:14
美国才是公认的邪恶轴心 -- Of course, your beloved Chinese government does not agree this view, otherwise, why does China give US billions of $ every year to expand its military operations all over the world? why does it use up all its resources to supply cheap products for American consumers? why does it condemn and agree to sanction North Korea and Iran for their nuclear programs? why was it one of the first governments that recognise the new Iraqi and Afgan governments installed by US military? There's only one explanation, US and China are both in this axis of evil.
有一句话叫“与狼共舞”，中国借钱给美国，并不是促进美国继续霸权，而是促进美国人消费，中国则解决就业问题及GDP的增长，其结果及目的是缩小中美经济的差距。这和美国是否邪恶轴心并不冲突。同样，美国在声称朝鲜为邪恶轴心的同时，还不时地无偿援助朝鲜，记住那可不是购买朝鲜国债，而是完全无偿的。照你的逻辑，美国和朝鲜就在同一个轴心上了。记住，不是有奶的便是你娘，也不是长根鸡巴毛的就是你爸，更不是有人出钱就可以同一轴心，可以同床共枕了。作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-10-27 19:57
So you agreed: US and China need each other. Also on the personal level, most of the leaders in China have family and properties in the US and western countries, their children receive education in the west, so they don't have the slightest interest to see the US fail. Their only demand is for the US to not help change CCP's dictatorship ruling in China which the American appear to be complying, because they need China too.
有一句话叫“与狼共舞”，中国借钱给美国，并不是促进美国继续霸权，而是促进美国人消费，中国则解决就业问题及GDP的增长，其结果及目的是缩小中美经济的差距。这和美国是否邪恶轴心并不冲突。同样，美国在声称朝鲜为邪恶轴心的同时，还不时地无偿援助朝鲜，记住那可不是购买朝鲜国债，而是完全无偿的。照你的逻辑，美国和朝鲜就在同一个轴心上了。记住，不是有奶的便是你娘，也不是长根鸡巴毛的就是你爸，更不是有人出钱就可以同一轴心，可以同床共枕了。作者: 长江7号 时间: 2009-10-27 21:20
So you agreed: US and China need each other. Also on the personal level, most of the leaders in China have family and properties in the US and western countries, their children receive education in the west, so they don't have the slightest interest to see the US fail. Their only demand is for the US to not help change CCP's dictatorship ruling in China which the American appear to be complying, because they need China too.
你的英语真的很烂,什么叫on the personal level?从前会手痒痒的改正过来,今天不会咯!!!作者: weinberger 时间: 2009-10-27 22:02
I'm glad I can give you this confidence. I admit my English is extremely poor, I think 'on the personal level' is a proper English phrase, but maybe it's not. Anyway, I think this forum is for discussing political topics, not how poor my English is. But if my terrible English can offer you guys some laughing material and also boost your confidence, I think I better continue, thanks.
