进化论批判（转贴）

爱国侨胞

     達爾文的進化論已經創立140餘年了，在其誕生之初，是作為一種假說被提出來的。除達爾文本人從對一些植物、動物形態的觀察得出的推論外，並沒有什麼化石證據。達爾文在《物種起源》書中論及化石時，標題為〈不完美的地質記錄〉。他承認在當時的化石研究中並未有證據顯示有物種間過渡類型的存在，並指出這可能是最易於檢驗而又具有殺傷力的反進化論的理由，他看到了進化論的先天缺陷，並希望後人能予以驗證。

一、達爾文主義自身的缺陷

(一)比較解剖學
　　進化論者通過動物的器官在形態和功能方面的類比，定了所謂的同源器官，並由此說明在進化樹中某一譜系的動物該器官在進化中發生的形態與功能的變化是自然選擇的結果。首先，同源器官的定義就非常牽強，你必須首先承認動物是進化的，才能找到同源器官。因此這絕不能算做進化論中的一個證據，而只能是一個推論。即我們只能說因為進化論正確，所以進化樹中某一譜系中的動物存在同源器官，而不能說同源器官的存在證明進化的存在。

　　現代基因學和遺傳學誕生後，對生物體形態與功能的關係在更本質的層次－－基因及分子水平有了嶄新的認識。形態和功能只是表相，它們是由基因決定的，相同的形態可能對映于完全不同的基因。如果認為從鳥類的翅到哺乳動物的前肢是進化的話，那麼它們的基因也應表現為對映於形態相同程度的進化。但實際上並非如此，如果現在仍有人試圖從表面現象說明問題，只能被認為是膚淺的。

(二)古生物學

1、凌亂的化石證據
　　無論是進化論者還是反進化論者，都希望古生物化石能輔證自己的觀點。如果說達爾文時代缺少化石記錄的話，那麼到今天為止，人類已收集了數以萬噸的化石，是否已證明進化論的正確了呢？事實上依然不能。芝加哥自然史博物館的古生物學家 Raup本是進化論者，但後來不得不放棄自然選擇學說，而支援幸運者生存說。他說該館擁有現有已知化石物種的近五分之一，可是已經確證的中間過渡類型的化石比達爾文時代還少。現有化石記錄混亂不堪，人為按進化論組成的譜系漏洞百出，根本不能說明問題。進化論者們所使用的分類方法及標準又不同，因此對某一化石的斷代也經常爭論不休，得不到一個統一的結論。

　　進化論者常用的一個較為完備的進化譜系證據是脊椎動物序列 (Vertebrate Sequence)，包括從魚類到兩棲類、爬蟲類、鳥類、哺乳動物、直至人的進化。從魚類到兩棲類，曾發現一種叫 Rhipidistian 的魚化石，其骨骼特徵類似於兩棲類，因此被認為是魚類到兩棲類的過渡類型。但當另一種叫 Coelacanth 的活化石發現後，這種觀點立即被推翻，因為這兩種動物在進化譜系中的親緣關係是極近的，但研究表明，Coelacanth 並無任何上岸的可能性。

　　曾經轟動一時的始祖鳥 (Archaeopteryx) 曾被視為進化論的鐵證，因為它即具有爬行動物的特徵，又具有鳥類的特徵，而被視為一個著名的過渡類型。後來發現，始祖鳥所具有的爬行類特徵，如爪和牙齒，在現代鳥類中也存在，如南美洲的 Opisthocomnshoatzin 和非洲的 Touracocorythaix。也就是說這個證據並不能用於判定鳥類與爬行類的過渡類型。

　　另外，Jensen 早在1977年《SCIENCE》上發表的論文指出，與始祖鳥同一地層出土的化石被懷疑為近似于現代鳥類動物的股骨，因此，始祖鳥即非「始祖」，也非種間類型。1991年在中國遼寧發現的年代與始祖鳥相同或更早的鳥類化石更加深了始祖鳥的地位危機。

　　在從猿到人的進化過程中，拉瑪古猿 (Ramapithecus) 具有重要意義。它的下頜骨兼具人類與猩猩的特徵，牙床結構類似於人，不具有猩猩的門齒與犬齒，但上下頜的距離與頜骨的長度又近似於猩猩，這被視為是進化論的一個鐵證。然而後來在非洲發現的一種狒狒 (Theroithecusglade) 與拉瑪古猿具有相同的牙齒及面骨特徵，但卻被視作一種狒狒。由此可見，這個判據也是模棱兩可的。

2、寒武紀生物大爆炸 (Cambrain Explosion)
　　達爾文對自己理論的最終歸宿評價道：「如果可以證明任何複雜的器官不能通過無數的、持續的、微小的改變形成的話，我的理論將絕對失敗。」

　　寒武紀生物大爆炸（指生物在此時大量出現。）恰恰提供了一個極好的例證。大約在五億三千萬年前，在短短的幾萬年內，幾乎現在所有生物的門同時出現在地球上。從海洋裏巨大的管狀蠕蟲、甲殼類到較為高級的脊索動物並存。如果進化確如達爾文所言，由點滴的漸進的方式進行，那麼數百萬年的時間無論如何也不足以完成這一歷程。雖然寒武紀之前的多細胞生物化石也有發現，但按進化論的觀點，它們與寒武紀生物並無承傳關係。

　　現代達爾文主義者 Stephen J. Gould 亦無法解釋，稱之為「迷中之迷(Enigma of Enigmas)」，事實上寒武紀生物大爆炸是進化論不可逾越的障礙。

3，、人類的起源
　　在《物種起源》發表之際，達爾文曾說：「只有人類的進化，怎麼都不可能用我的進化論來說明。」的確，從進化論的觀點來看，人類的進化太快了。以人為例，進化論者認為，人類誕生的歷程為：南方古猿 (Australopithecus，200萬年前)----原人(代表為 Beticonturops，50萬年前)－－舊人(代表為 Neanderthalian，10 萬年前)----新人( 5萬年前)----現代人類 (5千年前)。

　　在這一過程中，人腦容量以爆炸般的速度增大。而現代人類産生後，進化又仿佛突然消失了，五千年來人的腦容量基本未變。再看腦細胞數量，現代類人猿為10億個，而現代人類約為140億個。單從數位上看是增大了14倍，但智力水平卻發生著跳躍性的變化，這些證據強烈地暗示：這個進化樹是不正確的。這些物種也許根本沒有任何親緣關係，而進化論者只是按時間順序把它們拼湊在一起而已。

　　另外，六十年代以來，肯亞 Olduval 峽谷和Rudocf湖附近地區的考古發現，也給進化論提出了許多反例。1972 年出土了一具類人動物的頭骨化石，編號為 KNM-ER-1470，簡稱 1470 號人。按其分類特徵，它類似於現代人，屬於人屬 (Homo Genus)，比南方古猿和直立猿人 (Homo Erectus) 要進步得多，但它卻處於290萬年前。1470號人比進化論者所公認的人類始祖南方古猿早90萬年，比直立猿人早200萬年。這從根本上動搖了進化論的證據，成為古人類學中的一件懸案，至今沒有一個進化論者能夠歸屬1470號人在進化樹中的位置。

(三)胚胎學
　　與比較解剖學類似，胚胎學從生物發育過程中形態的變化，推論出高等動物的胚胎在發育中重現其進化歷程。如人類胎兒在發育之初與豬和鼠的胎兒都具有鰓裂和尾，形態也很相似，其實，這只是表面現象。首先，人類胎兒的「鰓裂」事實上不是鰓裂，而是快速發育的皮膚的褶皺；其次，人類胎兒的尾狀結構也絕不是尾，而是神經管。在蛙胎發育過程中的尾狀結構亦是神經管。

　　再次，形態這一表像是由基因決定的。較為普遍接受的HOX基因調控理論認為，動物形態雖然豐富多彩，但在分子水平上的調控都是一致的，因此，動物胚胎發育之初形態相似，是由於HOX基因調控水平相同而已。這是近年來發育生物學最為重大的發現之一。也就是說，從形態相似仍不能得出本質亦相似的結論。

二、不可迴避的化學進化

　　生命産生前在分子水平上的進化 (Prebiological Evolution) 被稱為化學進化。完整意義上的進化論，不僅要回答生命産生後的生物進化過程，而且還要解決生命物質是如何産生的問題。即怎樣由簡單、無機的小分子進化到複雜、有機的大分子，進而産生生命體。但這個問題被進化論者們故意地迴避了。

《達爾文的黑盒子 (Darwin's black box)》一書的作者Behe教授，對數種有關進化分子生物學的學術期刊（包括Journal of Molecular Evolution，Proceedings of National Academy of Sciences等權威雜誌），近十年來所發表的上千篇文章的研究表明，在這方面進行的工作是「零」。化學進化被迴避的原因很簡單，是因為進化論者根本無法回答。

　　流行的觀點認為，原始地球擁有還原性大氣，含有氮、氫、硫化氫等成份，不含或含少量的氧。大氣放電經常發生，原始海洋中水溫較高，並有頻繁的地質活動，如地震、火山噴發等。基於這種觀點，1951年Stanley Miller進行了著名的「原始湯 (Prebiotic soup)」實驗，他在一個燒瓶中模仿原始地球的環境，用氣體放電類比雷電。實驗結束後，在産物中分離到了氨基酸，這個結果轟動了科學界。但更多的問題暴露後，樂觀主義漸漸消失了。我們僅舉兩例，說明他們的困境。

(一)化學選擇性
　　所有生物大分子結構均表現為空間上的有序，蛋白質分子除了特定氨基酸的連接外，還能形成2-螺旋(helix)；BETA-折疊 (sheet) 等二級結構；結構域 (Structural domain) 等三級結構；直至形成四級結構－－亞基(subunit)。雙鏈DNA分子由兩條單鏈組成，除單個核甘酸的連接與氫鍵作用外，還能形成雙螺旋和超螺旋 (A-DNA；B-DNA；Z-DNA等)，所有這些結構都與該大分子的功能緊密相聯。一旦這些結構遭到破壞，該大分子就會失活，所以生物體在合成生物大分子時表現出極高的精確性。

假設第一條具有生命功能的多?鏈出現在原始海洋中，其序列為A，B，C...(A，B，C...代表天然的人體所需的二十種氨基酸)。其形成的必然條件是：

• A，B，C...等具有足夠的濃度，這樣A，B，C分子才有可能相遇而發生反應。

• 從氨基酸形成多?的反應是縮聚反應，每步反應會生成一分子水，從化學平衡的原理看，反應需要脫水劑，否則水將抑制該反應。

• 假設A與B的結合是隨機的，而結合C時是選擇性的，按熱力學原理，這是一個熵減的反應，必須得有外界能量的輸入。如果以上三個條件全部成立，那麼C到底是由什麼因素決定而被選擇的呢？進化論者只能回答：絕對的隨機。但在自然環境中，上述三個條件決不可能同時滿足，這個隨機過程缺乏先決條件。另外，從科學哲學的角度來看，進化論者的答案是不可能被證僞的(falsifiable)，而且在經驗世界中是不可檢驗的。

　　Behe教授在談到這個問題時舉了一個形象的例子，他認為，蛋白質絕對隨機，自然地産生，就如同一個人指望把熱水，雞蛋，麵粉，糖和可可粉隨機放在一起就能産生一個巧克力蛋糕一樣荒唐。

(二)光學選擇性
　　生物世界是一個不對稱的世界，如果你注意觀察過你的手，你會發現左右手在空間上無法完全重合，但左手和右手的鏡像卻能重合。在化學中這種現象被稱之為「手性(chirality)」，幾乎所有的生物大分子都是手性的。比如，組成人體的糖類一般是右旋的，而構成蛋白質的氨基酸都是左旋的。而左旋的糖和右旋的氨基酸，幾乎不能被人體利用。一般認為，在非手性的環境中不能産生手性化合物，而只能産生外消旋體，即等量的右旋和左旋體構成的混合物。

　　現代不對稱合成化學通常採用最昂貴的手性催化劑，才能使反應按照人所期望的方向進行，得到單一的手性化合物。在Miller的實驗裏，所有得到的氨基酸都是外消旋體。假如還用前文所舉的例子A-B-C...序列，又是誰選擇了左旋的氨基酸呢？衆所周知，最簡單的蛋白質是胰島素--51(?)，那麼由自然界隨機地從二十種天然外消旋體中選擇合成一個 51(?)，得到全部由左旋氨基酸構成，具有生物活性的胰島素分子的幾率有多大呢？簡單的數學計算可以證明是(1/40)的51次方。而在實踐中，其幾率是零，根本就不可能發生。Miller的實驗帶給進化論者的並不是福音，而是更加劇了其深刻的危機。

　　進化論發展至今，已經走入了死胡同。它認為人類由偶然中産生，進化即無目的又無方向。進化論者已變成狹隘、自負的信仰者，喪失了科學的探索精神，甚至拒絕對任何進化論體系外的現象進行觀察和研究。他們認為科學是研究存在和獲取知識的唯一途徑，凡是現代科學無法證實的，無法研究的，都是不真實的，進化論就是絕對的真理，他們把自己封閉在一個小圈子裏，不願向外邁出一步。

　　康乃爾大學的 William Provine 就斷言，根據進化論的結論，人只是複雜的生物機器，沒有任何特殊的意義。道德、信仰都不存在，也沒有任何自由意志，這完全回到了十九世紀的機械唯物主義，是人類思想的重大倒退。可悲的是，這是信奉進化論的必然結果。

　　從科學史上看，固步自封只能加速舊體系的崩潰。如今，人類已經步入一個新的世紀，只要人們勇於打破固有的觀念與框框，新科學的曙光一定會升起在地平線上。

weinberger

他们不是说了，那你也无法证明创造论啊。确实无法证明，如何用自然的法则去证明超自然的东西呢？如何用物质世界的原理去证明精神世界的东西呢？自己信了，自己体会到属天的祝福，平安，喜乐，让圣灵住在自己心里就好，无需去费力证明这个证明那个的。有的人永远不会信的，除非上帝显现在他面前。

爱国侨胞

他们不是说了，那你也无法证明创造论啊。确实无法证明，如何用自然的法则去证明超自然的东西呢？如何用物质世界的原理去证明精神世界的东西呢？自己信了，自己体会到属天的祝福，平安，喜乐，让圣灵住在自己心里就好，无需去费力证明这个证明那个的。有的人永远不会信的，除非上帝显现在他面前。
weinberger 发表于 2014-4-7 21:09

  他们现在的问题不也是我等曾经的疑问吗？
说不说是我们的事，信不信是他们的事，收不收是上帝的事。您说对吗？
老弟勿忘大使命！

共产党

回复 1# 爱国侨胞

请提供出处。

爱国侨胞

回复  爱国侨胞

请提供出处。
酒中仙 发表于 2014-4-7 22:29

    http://www.thinkerstar.com/cosmos/dw-c1.html

superca

他们现在的问题不也是我等曾经的疑问吗？
说不说是我们的事，信不信是他们的事，收不收是上帝的事。您说对吗？
老弟勿忘大使命！
爱国侨胞 发表于 2014-4-7 21:24

+1

共产党

这是发表在英国《新科学家》杂志上的一篇关于进化论研究现状的综述文章，当可代表科学界的看法

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9953-introduction-evolution.html?full=true#.U0Nzg_ldV5I

Introduction: Evolution

• 11:41 04 September 2006 by John Pickrell
• For similar stories, visit the Evolution Topic Guide

In 1859 Charles Darwin published his theory of natural selection amid anexplosion of controversy. Like the work of Copernicus in the 16th century revealing the movement of the Earth, Darwin's idea shook the foundations of the establishment and profoundly altered humanity's view of its place in the universe.

Today evolution is the unifying force in modern biology; it ties together fields as disparate as genetics, microbiology and palaeontology. It is an elegant and convincing explanation for the staggering diversity of Earth's five million or more living species.

Evolution has several facets. The first is the theory that all living species are the modified descendents of earlier species, and that we all share a common ancestor in the distant past. All species are therefore related via a vast tree of life. The second is that this evolution is driven by a process of natural selection or the - "survival of the fittest".

Darwin argued that all individuals struggle to survive on limited resourses, but some have small, heritable differences that give them a greater chance of surviving or reproducing, than individuals lacking these beneficial traits. Such individuals have a higher evolutionary fitness, and the useful traits they possess become more common in the population because more of their offspring survive.

Eventually these advantageous traits become the norm. Conversely, harmful traits are quickly eradicated as individuals that possess them are less likely to reproduce. Natural selection therefore works to create a population that ishighly suited to its environment, and can adapt to changes.

Sex wars

When individuals compete for limited resources in their environment they are subject to ecological selection. However, useful traits are not only those that give a survival advantage, but also those that increase a plant or animal's chance of reproducing. These traits are subject to sexual selection.

Sexually selected traits can make a male organism more attractive to females, the peacock's tail for example. These are sometimes correlated to the health of an individual, and are therefore an honest badge of fitness. Another type of sexually selected trait gives males a physical advantage in out-competing other males for mates, the stag's antlers for example. Sexual selection can even act at a molecular level.

Birds are particularly known for showy ornaments that attract mates, but also increase the chances of being spotted by predators. Other sexually selected traits include: lion's manes, great tit's or budgie's plumage, grouse mating rituals, insect love tokens, the height of human males and human hair,intelligence and facial features.

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Species spawning

Over eons, and many generations, the process of slow evolutionary change, called anagenesis, can cause one species to evolve into another. But most new species form in a speciation event, when one species splits into two; a process Darwin called the "mystery of mysteries".

Allopatric speciation happens when a geographical change - a river changing course for example or a new mountain range - splits a species in two. Once separated, as happened to antelope squirrels on either side of the Grand Canyon in the US, the populations evolve independently, eventually becoming distinct and reproductively isolated.

Sympatric speciation occurs when new species emerge without separation, such as the 13 species of Galapagos finch or Africa's cichlid fish. These species adapt to different opportunities in the environment, and then cease to interbreed - perhaps due to some isolating mechanism. Rarely new species can also form through hybridisation, such as sunflowers.

Darwinian evolution is a slow, gradual process. But much of the fossil record hints at puzzling long periods of stasis, with scarcely any change. In 1972, evolutionary biologists Niles Eldredge and Stephen J Gould argued instead that species, perhaps even communities, form suddenly in fits and starts of change. They called the theory punctuated equilibrium.

Like individuals in a population, species also struggle amongst themselves to survive, and most become extinct over time. Species can also die out in mass extinctions, such as the one that caused the demise of the dinosaurs. Today we may be in the throes of another mass extinction, caused by human overexploitation of habitats.

Evolutionary scenarios

During his voyage on the HMS Beagle and throughout his life, Darwin gathered evidence that contributed to his theory of natural selection. In Origin of Species he presented support from the fields of embryology, geography,palaeontology and comparative anatomy (see interactive graphic). Darwin also found evidence for his theory in examples of convergent evolution, co-evolution and adaptive radiation.

Convergent evolution, is when the same adaptations have evolved independently in different lineages of species under similar selection pressures. Today we see convergent evolution in species as diverse as: shark and camels, shrimps and grasshoppers, flamingos and spoonbills, marsupial and placental mammals and bioluminescent sea creatures. We also see it in the ears and teeth of mammals.

Co-evolution is when the evolutionary history of two species or groups of species is intimately intertwined. Examples include: the co-evolution offlowering plants and pollinators such as bees, lizards and moths; pocket gophers and their lice; humans and intestinal microbes; and the war ourimmune systems wage with the pathogens that attack us.

Adaptive radiation is the rapid speciation of one ancestral species to fill many empty ecological niches. Adaptive radiations are most common when animals and plants arrive at previously uninhabited islands. Examples of adaptive radiation can be found in: the Galapagos finches, Australia's marsupials, Hawaii's honeycreepers and fruit flies, Madagascar's carnivores and othermammals, New Zealand's birds and the prehistoric flying pterosaurs.

Secret code

Darwin was able to establish natural selection, without any understanding of the genetic mechanisms of inheritance, or the source of novel variation in a population. His own theory on the transmission of traits, called pangenesis, was completely wrong.

It was not until Gregor Mendel and the start of the 20th century that the genetic mechanism of inheritance began to be revealed. We now know that most traits, such as skin colour, eye colour and blood group are determined by our DNA and genes. During the 20th century, evolutionary biologists such as Ernst Mayr, J.B.S. Haldane, Julian Huxley, and Theodosius Dobzhanskycombined Darwinian evolution with our emerging knowledge of genetics to produce the "modern synthesis" that we call evolutionary biology today.

Most genes come in a variety of forms, one inherited from each parent. The varieties are known as alleles, and encode slightly different traits. The incidence of different traits, or alleles, in a population is driven by natural selection and genetic drift, which can randomly reduce genetic variation. Today, evolution is defined as the change in the frequency of alleles in populations over time.

New traits are introduced into populations by gene flow from other populations or by mutation. Mutation is a change in the structure of a gene and can be caused by errors in copying DNA, carcinogenic chemicals, viruses, UV-lightand radiation. Most mutations are neutral, having no effect on gene function; others are harmful, such as the ones that cause inherited diseases like cystic fibrosis. Rarely mutations can lead to beneficial new traits, such as increasedresistance to malaria.

Today evolutionary biologists are largely divided into two camps. The pro-selectionists such as Richard Dawkins, Stephen Pinker, Edward O Wilson,Matt Ridley, Mark Ridley and Jared Diamond believe in the primacy of natural selection as the principle guiding evolution. Others such as Niles Eldredge, Stephen J. Gould, Brian Goodwin, Stuart Kauffman and Steven Rose argue that we are still missing something big, and that natural selection does not explain the full complexity of evolution.

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爱国侨胞 发表于 2014-4-7 22:34

侨老既然是农学院毕业，讨论科学问题，从权威科学刊物上找资料比较靠谱吧？

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这里提供很多讨论关于进化论的误解的文章链接
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13620-evolution-24-myths-and-misconceptions.html#.U0N4R_ldV5I

Evolution: 24 myths and misconceptions

• 18:00 16 April 2008 by Michael Le Page
• For similar stories, visit the Evolution Topic Guide

If you think you understand it, you don't know nearly enough about it

It will soon be 200 years since the birth of Charles Darwin and 150 years since the publication of On the Origin of Species, arguably the most important book ever written. In it, Darwin outlined an idea that many still find shocking - that all life on Earth, including human life, evolved through natural selection.

Darwin presented compelling evidence for evolution in On the Origin and, since his time, the case has become overwhelming. Countless fossil discoveries allow us to trace the evolution of today's organisms from earlier forms. DNA sequencing has confirmed beyond any doubt that all living creatures share a common origin. Innumerable examples of evolution in actioncan be seen all around us, from the pollution-matching peppered moth to fast-changing viruses such as HIV and H5N1 bird flu. Evolution is as firmly established a scientific fact as the roundness of the Earth.

And yet despite an ever-growing mountain of evidence, most people around the world are not taught the truth about evolution, if they are taught about it at all. Even in the UK, the birthplace of Darwin with an educated and increasingly secular population, one recent poll suggests less than half the population accepts evolution.

For those who have never had the opportunity to find out about biology or science, claims made by those who believe in supernatural alternatives to evolutionary theory can appear convincing. Meanwhile, even among those who accept evolution, misconceptions abound.

Most of us are happy to admit that we do not understand, say, string theory in physics, yet we are all convinced we understand evolution. In fact, as biologists are discovering, its consequences can be stranger than we ever imagined. Evolution must be the best-known yet worst-understood of all scientific theories.

So here is New Scientist's guide to some of the most common myths and misconceptions about evolution.

There are already several good and comprehensive guides out there. But there can't be too many.

Shared misconceptions:

Everything is an adaptation produced by natural selection

Natural selection is the only means of evolution

Natural selection leads to ever-greater complexity

Evolution produces creatures perfectly adapted to their environment

Evolution always promotes the survival of species

It doesn't matter if people do not understand evolution

"Survival of the fittest" justifies "everyone for themselves"

Evolution is limitlessly creative

Evolution cannot explain traits such as homosexuality

Creationism provides a coherent alternative to evolution

Creationist myths:

Evolution must be wrong because the Bible is inerrant

Accepting evolution undermines morality

Evolutionary theory leads to racism and genocide

Religion and evolution are incompatible

Half a wing is no use to anyone

Evolutionary science is not predictive

Evolution cannot be disproved so is not science

Evolution is just so unlikely to produce complex life forms

Evolution is an entirely random process

Mutations can only destroy information, not create it

Darwin is the ultimate authority on evolution

The bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex

Yet more creationist misconceptions

Evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics

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weinberger

It depends, when you are dragged into a scientific debate over creation or evolution, it's very hard for you to win. For the simple reason: religion is not science, you can't prove supernatural power by natural science and mathematics. You can mention some historical events and prophecies in the Bible that have been proven to be true, such as the founding of Israel in 1948, but they will say those are just coincidence.
My experience is that people who insist on you to prove God's creation or existence by scientific means usually will never be able to accept your religion. They just want to ridicule your faith because they know you have no such proof. So there's no need to waste too much time.

他们现在的问题不也是我等曾经的疑问吗？
说不说是我们的事，信不信是他们的事，收不收是上帝的事。您说对吗？
老弟勿忘大使命！
爱国侨胞 发表于 2014-4-7 21:24

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It depends, when you are dragged into a scientific debate over creationism or evolutionary, it's very hard for you to win. For the simple reason: religion is not science, you can't prove supernatural power by natural science and mathematics.
My experience is that people who insist on you to prove God's creation or existence will usually never be able to accept your religion. They just want to ridicule your faith because they know you have no such proof. So there's no need to waste too much time.
weinberger 发表于 2014-4-8 00:28

侨老是在说他是从科学角度眅依基督的，你是在说科学和宗教井水不犯河水两张皮。原则上我还是可以接受你的说法，但是不可能接受侨老的“论证”。

爱国侨胞

侨老既然是农学院毕业，讨论科学问题，从权威科学刊物上找资料比较靠谱吧？
酒中仙 发表于 2014-4-8 00:13

    首先谢谢您提供的资料。但是，很抱歉，老朽是红卫兵大学生，大字报专业毕业，英语不好，读专业性资料很吃力，请您最好提供中文版本。