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标题: 各位朋友读一下市议员的反华歧视的言论，读后令人气愤 [打印本页]

作者: dlx12 时间: 2004-12-30 20:24
标题: 各位朋友读一下市议员的反华歧视的言论，读后令人气愤
http://www.insidetoronto.ca/to/s ... 0519p-2838296c.html

Councillor's comments cause concern
Ward 39's Mike Del Grande worries about 'white people' leaving community

DAVID NICKLE More from this author
Dec. 29, 2004

Ward 39 Councillor Mike Del Grande (Scarborough-Agincourt) worries that "white people" are leaving his northwest Scarborough ward, and maintains a list of suspected rooming houses, grow houses and bylaw violations in the form of a ward-wide "census" of single family homes.
"What's happening here is a lot of the white people are moving out," said Del Grande, during a recent tour of his ward with a Mirror reporter. Del Grande agreed to the tour after raising concerns about the assessment he'd received in The Mirror's recent city council report card. He made the comment outside one suspected marijuana grow house after the reporter noted the large suburban home had a Neighbourhood Watch sign in its front window.

During the two-hour tour, the councillor, elected for the first time in 2003, visited sites where he'd had an impact in 2003, focusing on community benefits received from developers, work that he'd done to improve local parks, and work he'd done to root out marijuana grow operations in suburban houses.

Del Grande's ward includes a large Chinese-Canadian population (43.3 per cent of the ward is of Chinese origin, according to 2000 census data posted on the City of Toronto's website).

When asked a short time later to explain his apparent perception that there is a race relations problem in his ward, Del Grande said: "There's two types of Chinese in this neighbourhood. There's the Hong Kong Chinese and there's the mainland Chinese and the Hong Kong Chinese are having trouble with the mainland Chinese. So it's not even white and Chinese. It's Chinese and Chinese. So there's a tension and Hong Kong Chinese are moving out. That's the irony here."

And he concluded:

"But most people don't care what's next door, Jamaican, Filipino, as long as they maintain their property...and they don't cause a lot of problems and have respect for each other, that's the key point," he said.

Dr. Ming-Tat Cheung, chair of the Chinese Cultural Centre, said he was "very disappointed" with Del Grande's comments.

"I think he has to learn the multicultural makeup of this community. He has to try to understand as a leader of the community he should try to resolve the problem and not incite the problem - make more problems," said Cheung.

"But saying that people who are white are moving out and Chinese people are moving in - I wouldn't want to use the word racism, but it's shortsighted to think that only the white people are Canadians and everybody else is an outsider," he added. "That's something that's been happening in the past. It's not well received."

Cheung also disagreed with Del Grande's assertion that Chinese-Canadians from mainland China have problems with those from Hong Kong, or vice versa.

"I think there is some cultural background differences between people from Hong Kong and China, but I think their goals are the same - trying to have a good life in Canada - and I think there might be some disagreements but overall I think Hong Kong people and Chinese people are working well together," he said.

On issues of property standards, Del Grande revealed that he had over the summer paid three summer students to observe every single family house in the ward. He showed the reporter the resulting chart that he said he carries with him, showing addresses and a checklist of suspected problems: overgrown grass, trees that need trimming, illegally-widened driveways and homes that showed signs of being illegal rooming houses or grow houses.

When asked if his constituents might not be disturbed at having their homes observed so closely, Del Grande responded: "If somebody calls to complain about their neighbour, I say...by the way, you got a widened driveway which is illegal as well...so you're breaking the law as much as the other guy. You want to proceed? I'll proceed."

Del Grande is, however, proactive on many property standards issues. He said he travels around his ward with a pair of binoculars and a digital camera, monitoring suspected illegal grow houses and also keeping an eye on houses that he suspects are illegal rooming houses.

"What I do is I get a camera and a pair of binoculars...I just literally drive by continually," he said.

Del Grande has also begun a much-publicized process of putting a sign up on the lawns of grow houses once the police have busted them. He dismissed concerns that doing so affects property values of the surrounding homes.

"The issue is we don't put them up forever - just for two to five days, saying we got rid of this," he said.

Del Grande also raised concerns that too many of the homes in the ward are tenant-occupied rather than owner-occupied. He said that his goal for the community is to have more homeowners move in.

"What I want at the end of the day is I want people to move into the neighbourhood and not move out of the neighbourhood," he said. "I think that tells the story...There are a lot of vacant homes. This area seems to be predominantly lots of absentee landlords, lots of rentals."

作者: VanOcean 时间: 2004-12-30 21:32
标题: stand up and let our voices be heard
If Chinese-Canadian maintains over 43 percent of the population in Scarborough ward, why don't we stand together and let our councillor be elected? A narrow-mined, aggorant person like Mike Del Grande should be dismissed from the next campaign. The reason he made such an disgraceful, unacceptable speech is because he was simply scared!

作者: 逗你玩 时间: 2004-12-30 21:50
那些大叫融入主流社会的人应该读读这篇文章, 主流社会的人说你们是outsider

作者: 也许 时间: 2004-12-30 22:29
他讲的虽然有点偏颇，但不无道理。

作者: 育婴亲子 时间: 2004-12-30 23:23
标题: Scarborough那地方正在变差，中国人也在往外搬。
Mike Del Grande就看出颜色来了，不知道是怎么混上Councillor的？是什么党？

作者: 林健 时间: 2004-12-30 23:40
标题: 有道是：物以类聚，人以群分
本来是很自然的事。不过，咱中国人，我想主要还是我们这些从大陆来的，法制观念可能不够，可能也是个问题。入境随俗，人家规矩大，大事小事都有法律，不学着点还真不好意思。应该和这个议员沟通一下，给新移民发点中文的法律小册子。不要动不动就种族问题，对解决问题没有帮助。

作者: 百年雨林 时间: 2004-12-31 02:41
说实话，看了以后，感觉和在上海、北京一样，那里的本地人谈起进城市打工的农民也是这样的口气，只是肤色都一样，所以在那里不算种族歧视吧。

作者: 白映雪 时间: 2004-12-31 10:06
标题: 他怎么能做到议员?
既然在那个区有那么多中国人, 为什么要选一个白人做市议员? 为什么不选一个中国人? 可能是中国人中间移民比较多, 没有选举权, 所以说不了话. 不用着急, 几年以后, 中国人会让他当不了议员. 如果有中国人竞选议员, 不过他是什么党, 什么派, 我肯定投他的票.

作者: 坏男人 时间: 2004-12-31 13:17
对,坚持投华人候选人!

作者: artist 时间: 2004-12-31 16:50
标题: 华人的参政意识不强,你也怪不了人家
虽然有些观点不对, 但也不是一点道理都没有的.

只有大家都行动起来, 用自己的选票来让自己的声音被听到.

作者: Roger128 时间: 2004-12-31 19:07
He is the one who dared to speak out and tried to solved the problem. I support him.

作者: Roger128 时间: 2004-12-31 21:17
标题: 回复：why are you white people here?
最初由[忆唐]发布
why are you white people here?

you'd better go back to your white's website.

Which website I visit is not your business.

作者: 逗你玩 时间: 2005-1-1 01:55
标题: 回复：有道是：物以类聚，人以群分
最初由[林健]发布
有道是：物以类聚，人以群分

本来是很自然的事。不过，咱中国人，我想主要还是我们这些从大陆来的，法制观念可能不够，可能也是个问题。入境随俗，人家规矩大，大事小事都有法律，不学着点还真不好意思。应该和这个议员沟通一下，给新移民发点中文的法律小册子。不要动不动就种族问题，对解决问题没有帮助。

你有自虐倾向吗?你要想自己骂自己没人拦着你呀,千万别把中国人都捎上.

作者: 哇咧 时间: 2005-1-1 10:11
标题: 加拿大的政客就是让人骂的
下次他再来巡查，你组织几百人到他跟前骂他：你是臭狗屎，不要脸的政治家％￥％￥◎……￥◎％……◎％＃％◎＃％％＃！

保证他不敢回嘴，他要是回嘴，或者动手，你就发达在线了。

作者: 百年雨林 时间: 2005-1-1 13:46
标题: 回复：楼上的，你不就是替种族歧视辩护吗？
最初由[忆唐]发布
楼上的，你不就是替种族歧视辩护吗？
国内的不同地区之间的分歧和种族歧视有本质的区别，当然沦子肯定另有所想了。

呵呵，看看近来你发的帖子，口口声声不离“沦子”；

至于种族歧视，的确存在，但这并不等于，凡是指责华人的言论都是种族言论；
究竟什么是种族歧视？
我遇到过对华人有偏见的、不了解华人的，这些态度不需要语言也能感觉到，但工作中我做得好的时候，他们仍然会肯定，并不因为我是华人而一味否定，所以即使他们有偏见，但我不认为他们是种族主义者；
我们移民，对于本地人来说的确是外来者，我们需要做的，是做好自己的事，合法抗争、保护自己的权益！

仅仅就楼主的帖子里，和北京、上海很多人认为进城的民工扰乱治安、没有文化非常类似；
大家不妨回想一下，在国内的时候，自己是怎么看待进城的民工的；
如果他还有其它言论，不妨再另外讨论；

至于你，从我来到这个论坛你已经在这里了，资格比我老得多，也曾拜读过你的帖子；
只是最近，不再看到你的帖子，而你的回复，除了给别人送帽子、扣分，看不到以理服人的东西，不知道为什么？

：）
这是我第一次得到扣分的评价，以此留念：
忆唐 [相关主题] - 说实话，看了以后，感觉和在上海、北京一样，那.. -1 12月31日 23:02

作者: 哇咧 时间: 2005-1-1 16:25
标题: 华人内耗太严重
还是想想如何对付那个混蛋议员吧

作者: 百年雨林 时间: 2005-1-1 16:37
：）
很奇怪，我再三查看我的帖子，没有出现过关于主流、非主流的问题，不知道是什么让你想到了这些；

我用自己的经历来作为自己发言的基础，有什么不对吗？
至于是否高人一等，我不介意，我看不起的人只有那些街边乞讨的年轻力壮的乞丐；
我关心的，首先是自己是否努力、认真的对待每一天，而不是别人怎么看我们，因为那是别人的看法，只有我们自己的努力才能改善自己的生活；

在我工作生活中交往的土生土长的加拿大人，的确没有感觉到任何种族主义的色彩，尽管我们之间有分歧、有冲突；
如果只是说歧视，富人对穷人、部分香港台湾移民对大陆移民、城市人对农民.......这些无处不在，不分国籍、肤色，我不认为这是种族问题；
不知道你所说的“三大主流报纸”上的种族言论是哪些？不妨举些例子，另外讨论；如果真的是种族言论，我们还可以考虑是否聘请律师打官司，要知道，种族言论是有机会拿到巨额赔偿的；

仅仅对本文来说，凭这些就给他扣上种族歧视的帽子，也太过于抬举他了吧？
既然有人认为这是种族言论，为什么不试试控告他呢？仅仅在这里发泄没有意义。

作者: 斯芬克斯 时间: 2005-1-1 18:05
标题: 回复：回复：楼上的，你不就是替种族歧视辩护吗？
最初由[百年雨林]发布
至于种族歧视，的确存在，但这并不等于，凡是指责华人的言论都是种族言论；

我认为，指责全体华人的言论它就是种族歧视。

作者: 百年雨林 时间: 2005-1-2 01:37
最初由[忆唐]发布
你先看看三大主流报纸再和我讨论吧，再说了，即使你一个人没遇到过种族歧视就能代表不存在吗？什么逻辑啊

斯芬克斯发表意见前是认真看了我的帖子，先谢啦；
至于如何对待针对全体华人的言论，我以前的帖子里面有：团结和素质--给所有关注海外华人的同胞
举个例子吧－－考驾照
大家都知道，加拿大对待中、日、韩、美、澳的驾照是不一样的，这也是针对全体中国移民的，是不是种族歧视呢？
恐怕不算吧？
宝马案中，官方不就是为被告作证，证明持有合法驾照的此人不会开车吗？

我们知道，加拿大法律是禁止种族歧视的，也有过类似案例；
既然你认为在三大主流媒体中，自己看到了种族言论，为什么不想想怎么去控告他们呢？

楼主的文章里，此议员发言确实不妥，但仅仅就本文来说，我个人以为还算不上种族歧视的言论，
如果此议员还有其它言论，另外讨论。
如果真认为这是种族歧视的言论，大家不妨讨论怎么控告他吧。

作者: 育婴亲子 时间: 2005-1-2 01:53
标题: 驾照的事是对中国政府的歧视，还不是种族歧视。
这次议员说的“white people is moving out", 是错误的，也是歧视的。实际上各色人种都在moving out，可是他就注意到white，着就是歧视。如果他是人类学家也许正常，作为政客，说明他不想干了。

作者: 百年雨林 时间: 2005-1-2 02:01
有道理，的确是对政府的歧视；

如果认为对此议员的言论是种族歧视言论，就应该考虑控告他种族歧视；
如果大家对此议员不满意，下次投票的时候，就应该用选票发表自己的意见；
只有这样，才能让他们重视华裔选民的利益！

作者: jasony 时间: 2005-1-2 11:02
忆唐老弟的言辞虽偏于激烈，但一针见血，爱国之心昭然。顶。

作者: 坏男人 时间: 2005-1-2 11:12
华人应当象犹太人那样团结起来!犹太人在加国的比华人少,但他们的影响力比华人大得多,就是因为犹太人团结.

作者: 百年雨林 时间: 2005-1-2 13:17
我自己是华人，如果是种族歧视，我也在被歧视之中，为什么我要为歧视辩护？
如果我认为自己受到了种族歧视，我会考虑要他上司出来见我，严重的会考虑指控，不论是否艰难！

我只是认为，此文涉及的是此议员的偏见、言论与身份不符，还不是种族歧视；
如果没有记错，当年美国官司要收购的时候，加拿大媒体也是一片哗然，说什么的都有，并不因为美国的强大、友好邻邦而感觉很有面子；

我们能改变由不了解带来的偏见，却不能改变由肤色引起的歧视，这是歧视与偏见的不同；
偏见需要我们大家的努力去改变，歧视需要我们大家的抗争去消灭！
我为人人、人人为我

作者: 逗你玩 时间: 2005-1-4 06:01
最初由[百年雨林]发布

斯芬克斯发表意见前是认真看了我的帖子，先谢啦；
至于如何对待针对全体华人的言论，我以前的帖子里面有：团结和素质--给所有关注海外华人的同胞
举个例子吧－－考驾照
大家都知道，加拿大对待中、日、韩、美、澳的驾照是不一样的，这也是针对全体中国移民的，是不是种族歧视呢？
恐怕不算吧？
宝马案中，官方不就是为被告作证，证明持有合法驾照的此人不会开车吗？

我们知道，加拿大法律是禁止种族歧视的，也有过类似案例；
既然你认为在三大主流媒体中，自己看到了种族言论，为什么不想想怎么去控告他们呢？

楼主的文章里，此议员发言确实不妥，但仅仅就本文来说，我个人以为还算不上种族歧视的言论，
如果此议员还有其它言论，另外讨论。
如果真认为这是种族歧视的言论，大家不妨讨论怎么控告他吧。你是不是有自虐的毛病?

作者: 逗你玩 时间: 2005-1-4 06:04
最初由[百年雨林]发布
我自己是华人，如果是种族歧视，我也在被歧视之中，为什么我要为歧视辩护？
如果我认为自己受到了种族歧视，我会考虑要他上司出来见我，严重的会考虑指控，不论是否艰难！

我只是认为，此文涉及的是此议员的偏见、言论与身份不符，还不是种族歧视；
如果没有记错，当年美国官司要收购的时候，加拿大媒体也是一片哗然，说什么的都有，并不因为美国的强大、友好邻邦而感觉很有面子；

我们能改变由不了解带来的偏见，却不能改变由肤色引起的歧视，这是歧视与偏见的不同；
偏见需要我们大家的努力去改变，歧视需要我们大家的抗争去消灭！
我为人人、人人为我你一定是那种见了白人脸上就堆满了笑容的那种人.

作者: runyingw 时间: 2010-9-12 00:07

If Chinese-Canadian maintains over 43 percent of the population in Scarborough ward, why don't we stand together and let our councillor be elected? A narrow-mined, aggorant person like Mike Del Grande should be dismissed from the next campaign. The reason he made such an disgraceful, unacceptable speech is because he was simply scared!
VanOcean 发表于 2004-12-30 22:32 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif

yes. I agree.

作者: 扳大轮 时间: 2010-9-14 11:26
我们论坛里的一些人肯定会为这位议员喝彩，并以支持这位议员来表明自己已经融入主流。

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