3. (1) On application with notice to the respondent, the court may make a temporary or final intervention order if it is satisfied on a balance of probabilities that,
(a) domestic violence has occurred; and
(b) a person or property may be at risk of harm or damage. 2000, c. 33, s. 3 (1).
不过俺看过老李和他媳妇的照片,老李及有可能是"妻管严",平时被管得太哪个了. 咋地也"是条东北汉子".哪里有压迫,哪里就有反抗, 也就搞起"武装斗争"了. 俺还是挺同情老李同志的.作者: Sedona 时间: 2007-6-2 10:29 标题: No Contact Order First, respect to 弄舟. How many of us know what e-laws is, or spend time understanding the legal and social systems in Canada? What 弄舟 doesn't have is life case experience to support his interpretation, which is fairly accurate in my humble opinion.
I am not a lawyer, but have done law enforcement for over 20 years in Canada. My current role includes interpreting the laws and translating them into government position papers, policies and procedures. I have seen more than 2000 no contact orders, so I guess I am qualified to toss in my 2 cents.
In at least 2 of my posts in other threads, I have tried to "re-construct" the disposition of Mr. Lee's criminal case. He refused to further elaborate, though he spent time and efforts telling us he made his wife pregnant in the first very date and the details of his negative family interactions.
Let me try the "re-construction" one more time:
Before conviction/disposition:
There may be a no contact order before conviction or disposition. The order is either issued by the police via an undertaking or by the law court via a bail. This order is still an order; every legal party in the case must abide by the order. However, it doesn't mean the defendant is guilty of anything. GongYiZhiSheng has said it the case still is untested.
After conviction/disposition:
I had an hour conversation with my legal manager about this case. She probably thought I had "trouble" at work. My legal manager is a panel member with the Ministry of Attorney General, to review and to revise the current laws.
We "re-constructed" the following:
1. Dismissal (case dropped or not convicted). The law court has no jurisidiction issuing any restrictive order on the defendant.
2. Conviction. The law court will issue an order with or without restrictive conditions including a no contact order.
3. Bargain, with or without a conviction. The law court can issue restrictive orders. My legal manager could not recall if she had seen a conditional discharge with a no contact order, though I told her I had seen it.
4. After the disposition, the no contact order means the victim requires protection. If the defendant violates the court order, he will be charged with breach, and the old case will be brought back to court for a new disposition.
To conclude, it is time for Mr. Lee to tell us if he was convicted or he got a bargain with the Crown. The current no contact order, after the disposition, means Ms. Wu still is at risk.
I don't understand why the court order includes that Mr. Lee can't have access to his daughter. There must be "more facts" in this case Mr. Lee has chosen not to share with 51ers.作者: 冬雪canada 时间: 2007-6-2 10:31 最初由[ffgg123]发布
合法??? Of course, a no contact order is legal - no doubt about it.
合情合理???? No contact order is reasonable and fit well to the Canadian mainstream society. I am not sure about immigrants though. There are 105 ethno-cultural communities in Toronto. I don't think we can find a legal system to fit them all.
不是有根有据有保障???? This is a strong accusation. If the Canadian law system doesn't operate based on reasonable and probable grounds, that's a good news - we can all move to USA, UK, Australia or China to claim refugee status.
所以李向东的自述有部分原因是我鼓励的,为的是让他熟悉中文输入,以便提交给律师的材料。????? You don't learn Chinese typing by sharing your private life, including the graphic details of the very first date. Go talk to a lawyer, who will assist Mr. Lee to organize his case. Instead, he is shooting his own feet by sharing lots of inappropriate comments.
If the Canadian legal system is corrupt, forget legal help or appeal to the law court. Smuggle to a civilized country to claim refugee status!作者: 哇咧 时间: 2007-6-3 09:23 标题: 回复:回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判 最初由[Sedona]发布 回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判
合法??? Of course, a no contact order is legal - no doubt about it.
合情合理???? No contact order is reasonable and fit well to the Canadian mainstream society. I am not sure about immigrants though. There are 105 ethno-cultural communities in Toronto. I don't think we can find a legal system to fit them all.
不是有根有据有保障???? This is a strong accusation. If the Canadian law system doesn't operate based on reasonable and probable grounds, that's a good news - we can all move to USA, UK, Australia or China to claim refugee status.
所以李向东的自述有部分原因是我鼓励的,为的是让他熟悉中文输入,以便提交给律师的材料。????? You don't learn Chinese typing by sharing your private life, including the graphic details of the very first date. Go talk to a lawyer, who will assist Mr. Lee to organize his case. Instead, he is shooting his own feet by sharing lots of inappropriate comments.
If the Canadian legal system is corrupt, forget legal help or appeal to the law court. Smuggle to a civilized country to claim refugee status!
I know the Chinese community well and I believe what I suggested is appropriate, adequate, and constructive, from the side of Mr. Lee. Canadian's law systems, specifically family law, is very easily used against people like Mr. Lee, who has a short life living here, apparently lack of self-confidence, under financial difficulties. This is not the problem of enforcement, but the consequence of cultural differences.
Canadian legal system is corrupt, no doubt. I saw it on TV once the police in some state of US is chasing a suspect on the road, and the woman reporter was asking questions to the *criminal expert*, "why he is still trying to hide somewhere here, why didn't he go to somewhere else like Canada?" It's a shame.作者: 胡硕士 时间: 2007-6-3 09:27 最初由[冬雪canada]发布
>
I know the Chinese community well and I believe what I suggested is appropriate, adequate, and constructive, from the side of Mr. Lee. Canadian's law systems, specifically family law, is very easily used against people like Mr. Lee, who has a short life living here, apparently lack of self-confidence, under financial difficulties. This is not the problem of enforcement, but the consequence of cultural differences.
Canadian legal system is corrupt, no doubt. I saw it on TV once the police in some state of US is chasing a suspect on the road, and the woman reporter was asking questions to the *criminal expert*, "why he is still trying to hide somewhere here, why didn't he go to somewhere else like Canada?" It's a shame.
Though I don't agree the Canadian legal system is corrupt, I agree with you lots of Chinese immigrants suffer because of the cultural clash.
Do I agree with the family law in Canada? Not quite. The family law intervention is like when we have a fever, we take antibiotic, regardless the cause of the fever. It is very effective, but the side effects are harmful as well.
You mention tv shows. Mr. Lee is eligible for a trip to Jerry Springer's show in Chicago. Alternatively, Judge Judy's.作者: 至强 时间: 2007-6-3 10:38 标题: 回复:回复:回复:回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判 最初由[Sedona]发布 回复:回复:回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判
Though I don't agree the Canadian legal system is corrupt, I agree with you lots of Chinese immigrants suffer because of the cultural clash.
Do I agree with the family law in Canada? Not quite. The family law intervention is like when we have a fever, we take antibiotic, regardless the cause of the fever. It is very effective, but the side effects are harmful as well.
You mention tv shows. Mr. Lee is eligible for a trip to Jerry Springer's show in Chicago. Alternatively, Judge Judy's.
I am no expert in anything. The only thing I am good at is traveling, so if you need any suggestion, I am more than happy to share my experience.
To answer the question above, it is easy. We don't need no legal expertise; just use common sense.
这人是否失去所有权力? The key word is 所有. The answer is of course no; even prisoners have some rights.
比如隐私权,姓名权什么的? I guess you are referring to the video. I haven't seen the video, but I bet Mr. Lee's name was not mentioned. Mr. Lee self-identified it to the media he is the talk of the town. In term of confidentiality, I don't think anyone or organization has violated Mr. Lee's rights. If they did, Mr. Lee can sue them for millions.
On the other hand, Mr. Lee disclosed the names of his ex-wife and his daughter and the details of him making Ms. Wu pregnant on the first date, to the media or at 51. He has violated Ms. Wu's privacy.作者: 加国老三 时间: 2007-6-3 14:22 标题: 按你的说法平权会更是侵权在先了 最初由[Sedona]发布
I am no expert in anything. The only thing I am good at is traveling, so if you need any suggestion, I am more than happy to share my experience.
To answer the question above, it is easy. We don't need no legal expertise; just use common sense.
这人是否失去所有权力? The key word is 所有. The answer is of course no; even prisoners have some rights.
比如隐私权,姓名权什么的? I guess you are referring to the video. I haven't seen the video, but I bet Mr. Lee's name was not mentioned. Mr. Lee self-identified it to the media he is the talk of the town. In term of confidentiality, I don't think anyone or organization has violated Mr. Lee's rights. If they did, Mr. Lee can sue them for millions.
On the other hand, Mr. Lee disclosed the names of his ex-wife and his daughter and the details of him making Ms. Wu pregnant on the first date, to the media or at 51. He has violated Ms. Wu's privacy.
平权会: 《反家暴 破碎的家演出真人真事
平权会制DVD 刘珏辉导演 周志勇作曲
由平权会制作的纪录片「破碎的家」(Tears at Home) 昨天举行公映式,影片透过两名华人妇女的亲身经历,宣传反家暴的主题。》
再次奉劝李先生,什么都不要说了。再说下去,后果严重。没听SEDONA说,你已经侵犯了你妻子的隐私了吗?作者: 台北夢 时间: 2007-6-3 15:19 标题: A Prized Liar - Mr. Lee Didnt many of us has said and warned Lee that he is not speaking the truth and that he is only misusing 51.ca and all of the 51.ca fans here?!
The only posititive gesture he can still make is by showing us all the official legal documents for further discussion.
Again, he is a liar, a pitiful timid homosapien .
Why does he go on and on with empty talks!
Good night, Mr. L作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 15:52 最初由[网站管理员]发布
鼓励原创,故加精。
中国人遇到夫妻打架要劝,单位领导,居委会,大姨二舅三姑爷四叔,以娘家人为主的一帮人都会浮出水面。作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 17:08 标题: 回复:No Contact Order 最初由[Sedona]发布 No Contact Order
First, respect to 弄舟. How many of us know what e-laws is, or spend time understanding the legal and social systems in Canada? What 弄舟 doesn't have is life case experience to support his interpretation, which is fairly accurate in my humble opinion.
I am not a lawyer, but have done law enforcement for over 20 years in Canada. My current role includes interpreting the laws and translating them into government position papers, policies and procedures. I have seen more than 2000 no contact orders, so I guess I am qualified to toss in my 2 cents.
In at least 2 of my posts in other threads, I have tried to "re-construct" the disposition of Mr. Lee's criminal case. He refused to further elaborate, though he spent time and efforts telling us he made his wife pregnant in the first very date and the details of his negative family interactions.
Let me try the "re-construction" one more time:
Before conviction/disposition:
There may be a no contact order before conviction or disposition. The order is either issued by the police via an undertaking or by the law court via a bail. This order is still an order; every legal party in the case must abide by the order. However, it doesn't mean the defendant is guilty of anything. GongYiZhiSheng has said it the case still is untested.
After conviction/disposition:
I had an hour conversation with my legal manager about this case. She probably thought I had "trouble" at work. My legal manager is a panel member with the Ministry of Attorney General, to review and to revise the current laws.
We "re-constructed" the following:
1. Dismissal (case dropped or not convicted). The law court has no jurisidiction issuing any restrictive order on the defendant.
2. Conviction. The law court will issue an order with or without restrictive conditions including a no contact order.
3. Bargain, with or without a conviction. The law court can issue restrictive orders. My legal manager could not recall if she had seen a conditional discharge with a no contact order, though I told her I had seen it.
4. After the disposition, the no contact order means the victim requires protection. If the defendant violates the court order, he will be charged with breach, and the old case will be brought back to court for a new disposition.
To conclude, it is time for Mr. Lee to tell us if he was convicted or he got a bargain with the Crown. The current no contact order, after the disposition, means Ms. Wu still is at risk.
I don't understand why the court order includes that Mr. Lee can't have access to his daughter. There must be "more facts" in this case Mr. Lee has chosen not to share with 51ers.
U HAVE MY RESPECT,TOO,MR。 SEDONA。I MAY NOT ALWAYS AGREE WITH U,THOUGH。
HOPE U HAVE SOME CASES TO SUPPORT MY INTERPRETATION。
WHAT DOES THE TERM “DISPOSITON” EXCACTLY MEAN,BY THE WAY?作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 17:14 标题: 回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判 最初由[哇咧]发布 加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判
I know the Chinese community well and I believe what I suggested is appropriate, adequate, and constructive, from the side of Mr. Lee. Canadian's law systems, specifically family law, is very easily used against people like Mr. Lee, who has a short life living here, apparently lack of self-confidence, under financial difficulties. This is not the problem of enforcement, but the consequence of cultural differences.
Canadian legal system is corrupt, no doubt. I saw it on TV once the police in some state of US is chasing a suspect on the road, and the woman reporter was asking questions to the *criminal expert*, "why he is still trying to hide somewhere here, why didn't he go to somewhere else like Canada?" It's a shame.
PROBLEMS,YES。 CORRUPTED,QUESTION MARK。
U DON‘T JUDGE A SYSTEM ONLY BY A FEW CASES。 OTHERWISE,ANY POINT OF VIEW COULD BE VALID FOR U CAN ALWAYS FIND SOME CASES TO SUPPORT UR VIEW。THUS, WE GONNA HAVE TONS OF VALID POINTS OF VIEW CLASHING EACH OTHER。作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 17:40 标题: 回复:回复:回复:回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判 最初由[Sedona]发布 回复:回复:回复:加拿大的法院和官僚系统,基本上就是瞎判
Though I don't agree the Canadian legal system is corrupt, I agree with you lots of Chinese immigrants suffer because of the cultural clash.
Do I agree with the family law in Canada? Not quite. The family law intervention is like when we have a fever, we take antibiotic, regardless the cause of the fever. It is very effective, but the side effects are harmful as well.
You mention tv shows. Mr. Lee is eligible for a trip to Jerry Springer's show in Chicago. Alternatively, Judge Judy's.
U R MISTAKEN IF U RELY ANTIBIOTIC ALONE TO CURE UR FEVER。IT’S NOT MEANT SO。 IT‘S UR IMMUN SYSTEM WHICH DOES MOST OF THE JOB。 U CAN CRITICIZE ANTIBIOTIC FOR NOT REDUCING UR FEVER EFFECTIVELY, BUT U CANNOT CRITICIZE IT FOR NOT CURING UR FEVER ENTIRELY。
THE SAME CAN BE APPLIED TO THE LAW。 IT REQUIRES A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER THINGS, SUCH AS VALUES,ETHICS,RELIGIONS,EDUCATION,ETC。,WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE LAW TO CURE OUR SOCIETY。作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 18:04 标题: 回复:我就不说我的解释了,因为我不了解情况 最初由[哇咧]发布 我就不说我的解释了,因为我不了解情况
无论如何,若李先生确信法院未断定他有家暴行为,他应该去告平权会。这个行动本身是最好的证明。作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 18:06 标题: 回复:A Prized Liar - Mr. Lee 最初由[Lat123]发布 A Prized Liar - Mr. Lee
Didnt many of us has said and warned Lee that he is not speaking the truth and that he is only misusing 51.ca and all of the 51.ca fans here?!
The only posititive gesture he can still make is by showing us all the official legal documents for further discussion.
Again, he is a liar, a pitiful timid homosapien .
Why does he go on and on with empty talks!
Good night, Mr. L
BE NICE,PLEASE。作者: 弄舟 时间: 2007-6-3 18:58 标题: NO CONTACT ORDERS 以下网站提供了许多关于隔离令的资料,很有参考价值:
A. A Judge or Justice of the Peace needs certain information before s/he can grant you one of these court orders:
s/he must believe on a balance of probabilities that your fear is reasonable: this means a similar person in your position would be afraid
you cannot make emotional pleas without evidence; therefore, you should:
- document every time the person stalked you or threatened you
- keep any evidence of abuse such as hospital records, photographs, etc.
- in the case of a partner/ex-partner, if applicable, evidence of his mistreatment of your children
- for peace bonds only, document every time the person damaged your property or threatened to; take photographs, if possible.
You are very right. A no contact order is to protect the victim.作者: 网站管理员 时间: 2007-6-3 20:12 标题: 回复:回复:我就不说我的解释了,因为我不了解情况 最初由[弄舟]发布 回复:我就不说我的解释了,因为我不了解情况
但请注意,在以下您解释的隔离令的条件的时候,中间的用词是“s/he must believe on a balance of probabilities that your fear is reasonable: ”,这里有没有肯定家庭暴力已经发生的肯定性结论?没有吧。只是说提出要求方的担心可能是有理由的。
A. A Judge or Justice of the Peace needs certain information before s/he can grant you one of these court orders:
s/he must believe on a balance of probabilities that your fear is reasonable: this means a similar person in your position would be afraid
you cannot make emotional pleas without evidence; therefore, you should:
- document every time the person stalked you or threatened you
- keep any evidence of abuse such as hospital records, photographs, etc.
- in the case of a partner/ex-partner, if applicable, evidence of his mistreatment of your children
- for peace bonds only, document every time the person damaged your property or threatened to; take photographs, if possible.
因此,我还是认为,对法庭的隔离令的理解,不能过于简单地认为:这就是认定家庭暴力已经发生。至少,在您给出的法律条文中,我不能得出这样的结论。
最后,我想提醒一下,我是以个人身份在讨论这件事情,没有网站的立场,您不用总是“老板”的称呼,别扭的很。作者: 台北夢 时间: 2007-6-3 20:21 标题: BE NICE,PLEASE。 A Prized Liar - Mr. Lee
弄舟 : And do you think you are really being nice to Leee by confusing him with all the questions and your analysis?
Do you really think he needs all the comments he got from the forum? Do you really think he does not know ? He might not be as calm as you but he definitely has a more peculiar mindset .
I think he is only using 51 forum to purge his wife, the legal system, and those community institutions because he has lost 'face '.
To be nice to him is to tell him straight to HIS FACE that he should get on with his life and for us not to confuse him anymore with so much 'intellectual analysis", because this is not what he needs. He needs medical help and 不要欺骗观众作者: 宇宙洪荒 时间: 2007-6-4 09:10 标题: 回复:按你的说法平权会更是侵权在先了 最初由[加国老三]发布 按你的说法平权会更是侵权在先了
平权会: 《反家暴 破碎的家演出真人真事
平权会制DVD 刘珏辉导演 周志勇作曲
由平权会制作的纪录片「破碎的家」(Tears at Home) 昨天举行公映式,影片透过两名华人妇女的亲身经历,宣传反家暴的主题。》