什么是公民、国籍和国民？ （原创）

以柔克刚

什么是公民、国籍和国民？ （原创）

最近看了天下公的一篇文章《别拿加公民身份当国籍 要有自知之明》http://info.51.ca/news/canada/2014/09/15/354966.shtml， 对其强烈要求恢复中国祖籍国国籍的热情和努力十分理解。但总觉得天下公对公民、国籍和国民定义的阐述十分牵强。在这说一下个人的看法。

对公民、国籍的中英文解释是这样的：

国籍：
Nationality-The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization，
国籍是指在一个特定国家通过祖籍（血统）、出生地或者归化而获得的状态（身份）。 是什么状态（身份）呢？这就需要用Citizenship等来补充说明。

公民：
Citizenship -  The status of a citizen with its attendant duties, rights, and privileges.
公民是指具有的责任，权利和特权的国民的状态（身份）。


国民：
相对应的英文很难查到， 有National的意思。但是citizen（公民）同样也有National的意思。如 citizen：a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized. 所以分歧主要是对国民的定义。请大家各抒己见，澄清和阐述国民的定义和范畴。


个人大致认为国民应该是泛指，是包括某个特定时期居住在某国有合法身份的所有居民。而公民是国民中具有特殊责任，权利和义务的居民。国民包括公民，而公民不一定包括国民。

从来没有救世主

大和尚出逃这么多年，近期也要求放弃政治回国了。

大和尚都能恢复中国国籍，其他小民就是绝对没有问题的了。

以柔克刚

对于国籍，有一段比较详细的论述。

國籍是指一個人屬於一個國家國民的法律資格，也是國家實行外交保護的依據。各國將國籍做為立法的重要內容，是從十八世紀末，十九世紀初開始的。

《世界人權宣言》第十五條規定：「人人有權享有國籍。任何人的國籍不得任意剝奪，亦不得否認其改變國籍的權利。」
取得國籍
根據出生取得國籍
大多數人都是通過這種方式取得國籍，根據出生取得國籍分為依血統和依出生地，世界上大多數國家采用血統主義和出生地主義相結合的原則。

依血統：不論出生在何地，只要其父母一方為本國人，則子女就獲得父母一方或兩方的國籍，這種原則稱為：血統主義（ 拉丁语：jus sanguinis，血液衍生的权利），又稱為屬人主義。

依出生地：無論父母是哪國人，只要出生在該國的領土內，即自動獲得該國國籍，這種原則稱為：出生地主義（拉丁语：jus soli，土地衍生的权利），又稱為屬地主義。
通過加入取得國籍
根據出生取得國籍，並非是按照個人意願的一種方式，而通過加入取得國籍的方式，則是根據個人意願或某種事實，並具備相關條件，才可取得它國國籍。

婚姻：一國男子和另外一國女子結緍，例如：女子願意申請，則獲得男子所屬國的國籍，如女子所屬國的法律規定，不允許雙重國籍，則女子必須放棄本國國籍才可申請男子所屬國的國籍，反之亦然。

收養：一國國民收養無國籍或另一國的兒童，被收養者的國籍會發生改變，或者繼續保持收養者的原國籍。

自願申請：又稱歸化，是指一國國民自願申請另一國國籍。在入籍條件方面，許多國家都有一定的限制。

以柔克刚

大和尚出逃这么多年，近期也要求放弃政治回国了。

大和尚都能恢复中国国籍，其他小民就是绝对没有问题的了。
从来没有救世主 发表于 2014-9-17 10:39

中国大陆现在还是一个人治的国家, 要不怎么在当事人没有申请、申明放弃祖籍国国籍的情况下，把当事人与生俱来的祖籍国国籍剥夺掉？！

在这样的状况下，要求恢复祖籍国国籍是否现实？这是个应该慎重考虑的问题。还是将错就错吧。 等到中国大陆成为民主国家了，这个问题自然而然的也就解决了。要不，中共随便找个什么理由，把你灭了或者关入大牢，那才得不偿失。

Sanssouci

什么是公民、国籍和国民？ （原创）

国民：
相对应的英文很难查到， 有National的意思。但是citizen（公民）同样也有National的意思。如 citizen：a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized. 所以分歧主要是对国民的定义。请大家各抒己见，澄清和阐述国民的定义和范畴。


个人大致认为国民应该是泛指，是包括某个特定时期所有居住在某国的所有居民。而公民是国民中具有特殊责任，权利和义务的居民。国民包括公民，而公民不一定包括国民。
以柔克刚 发表于 2014-9-17 10:35

关于国民，如果查不到字典，可以用案例，譬如近期美国FBI逮捕美国公民黄振春的案例公告：

U.S. Attorney’s Office July 02, 2014
District of Maryland (410) 209-4800
GREENBELT, MD—Zhenchun Huang, a/k/a Ted Huang, age 51, a Chinese national and naturalized U.S. citizen, formerly residing in Clarksville, Maryland, pleaded guilty today to false personation of a federal employee and obstruction of justice, in connection with a scheme to fraudulently obtain technology products from U.S. companies for export to China..

美国的法律文件很清楚地区分，某某，51岁，中国人，归化美国公民。
在这儿Chinese national的属性非常清楚，中国人，美国公民身份还是归化的，不是原汁原味的美国人。这份文件非常清楚地表明，取得美国公民身份，并不表示改变了中国人的国民身份。

FBI原件：http://www.fbi.gov/baltimore/pre ... from-u.s.-companies

以柔克刚

关于国民，如果查不到字典，可以用案例，譬如近期美国FBI逮捕美国公民黄振春的案例公告：

U.S. Attorney’s Office July 02, 2014
District of Maryland (410) 209-4800
GREENBELT, MD—Zhenchun Huang, a/k/a Ted Huang, age 51, a Chinese national and naturalized U.S. citizen, formerly residing in Clarksville, Maryland, pleaded guilty today to false personation of a federal employee and obstruction of justice, in connection with a scheme to fraudulently obtain technology products from U.S. companies for export to China..

美国的法律文件很清楚地区分，某某，51岁，中国人，归化美国公民。
在这儿Chinese national的属性非常清楚，中国人，美国公民身份还是归化的，不是原汁原味的美国人。这份文件非常清楚地表明，取得美国公民身份，并不表示改变了中国人的国民身份。

FBI原件：
Sanssouci 发表于 2014-9-17 11:54

我认为在这“ national ” 有 native 的意思, 就是 originally come from...... 因为 National 的 synonyms（同义词）有 : citizen, subject, native, voter 的意思。

宇宙洪荒

中国大陆现在还是一个人治的国家, 要不怎么在当事人没有申请、申明放弃祖籍国国籍的情况下，把当事人与生俱来的祖籍国国籍剥夺掉？！

在这样的状况下，要求恢复祖籍国国籍是否现实？这是个应该慎重考虑的问题。还是将错就错吧。 等到中国大陆成为民主国家了，这个问题自然而然的也就解决了。要不，中共随便找个什么理由，把你灭了或者关入大牢，那才得不偿失。
以柔克刚 发表于 2014-9-17 10:59 http://bbs.51.ca/images/common/back.gif

    应该争取！
对自身及后人都有好处，对中国也有好处。
应该是习近平振兴中华民族的一部分。

superca

谢谢分享

Sanssouci

什么是公民、国籍和国民？ （原创）

国籍：
Nationality-The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization，
国籍是指在一个特定国家通过祖籍（血统）、出生地或者归化而获得的状态（身份）。 是什么状态（身份）呢？这就需要用Citizenship等来补充说明。

公民：
Citizenship -  The status of a citizen with its attendant duties, rights, and privileges.
公民是指具有的责任，权利和特权的国民的状态（身份）。

以柔克刚 发表于 2014-9-17 10:35

根据CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP ACT， 只有Dual Citizenship， 没有Dual Nationalities，所以”双重国籍“的提法是不准确的，正确的说法应该是”双重公民身份“。所以天下公的文章是有依据的。

当然，人们用口语”双重国籍“也是可以的，但在讨论问题上，还是尽量避免为好。

以柔克刚

根据CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP ACT， 只有Dual Citizenship， 没有Dual Nationalities，所以”双重国籍“的提法是不准确的，正确的说法应该是”双重公民身份“。所以天下公的文章是有依据的。

当然，人们用口语”双重国籍“也是可以的，但在讨论问题上，还是尽量避免为好。
Sanssouci 发表于 2014-9-18 00:21

这是US Department of State 对 Dual Nationality 的叙述。同样对“National” （国民）也有更具体的定义： (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html


Dual Nationality

Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals. Non-citizen nationality status refers only individuals who were born either in American Samoa or on Swains Island to parents who are not citizens of the United States.

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.


A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

Information on losing foreign nationality can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. nationality in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

Sanssouci

Dual Nationality

Section 101(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) states that “the term ‘national of the United States’ means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.” Therefore, U.S. citizens are also U.S. nationals. Non-citizen nationality status refers only individuals who were born either in American Samoa or on Swains Island to parents who are not citizens of the United States.

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.


A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

Information on losing foreign nationality can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. nationality in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.
以柔克刚 发表于 2014-9-18 09:01

多谢，原来只是诸如双非婴儿有的权利，譬如邓小平的孙子。和出生在中国的第一代归化外国公民没有一毛钱关系。

Sanssouci

这是US Department of State 对 Dual Nationality 的叙述。同样对“National” （国民）也有更具体的定义： (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.”

以柔克刚 发表于 2014-9-18 09:01

根据这段定义，还是没法解释被FBI逮捕的黄某的Chinese National。黄某是美国归化公民，住在美国，怎么会又是中国公民，或者住在中国的居民？

以柔克刚

根据这段定义，还是没法解释被FBI逮捕的黄某的Chinese National。黄某是美国归化公民，住在美国，怎么会又是中国公民，或者住在中国的居民？
Sanssouci 发表于 2014-9-19 18:56

此段中the term ‘national of the United States’ 的定义A or B已经具体说明。。

而“Chinese National” 是指“中国原籍“或者”"Chinese Native "。 前面已经说了， 在这“ national ” 有 native 的意思, 就是 originally come from...... 因为 National 的 synonyms（同义词）有 : citizen, subject, native, voter 的意思。

Sanssouci

此段中the term ‘national of the United States’ 的定义A or B已经具体说明。。

而“Chinese National” 是指“中国原籍“或者”"Chinese Native "。 前面已经说了， 在这“ national ” 有 native 的意思, 就是 originally come from...... 因为 National 的 synonyms（同义词）有 : citizen, subject, native, voter 的意思。
以柔克刚 发表于 2014-9-19 22:36

咱觉得FBI公告要表明的是“此人是中国人”。特别指出：”生在中国“似乎毫无意义。你想想，老美发布这个案子，说明犯人出生在哪里，和案情有什么关系，但指出此人是中国人，暗指的意思就很清楚了。不信，你去问问老外同事就知道了。

以柔克刚

咱觉得FBI公告要表明的是“此人是中国人”。特别指出：”生在中国“似乎毫无意义。你想想，老美发布这个案子，说明犯人出生在哪里，和案情有什么关系，但指出此人是中国人，暗指的意思就很清楚了。不信，你去问问老外同事就知道了。
Sanssouci 发表于 2014-9-19 23:19

“此人是中国人”是指他或者她的生物特性，这个是由基因决定的，无法改变。但绝不是偷换成社会学概念的理由，更不是“国民”只有一个并且不能改变的理由。以下这句话已经充分说明有双重国籍的说法，并且国民并不是只有一个而且还能改变 。 这是我发表此文的初衷。

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time.