作者: eric yu 时间: 2004-4-14 15:11
up作者: technician 时间: 2004-4-14 15:20
I can not agree more.
I have some additional suggestions for the friends who are interested in blue collar jobs.
Each industry association controls the number of the worker in the industry. For instance, I have an EE degree, but to be an certified electrician, I still need 4.5 years of apprenticeship. Even you have PhD in EE, you must have to spent 4.5 years as electrician appretice. It doesn't matter whether the PhD is achieved in Canada or China. Although there is a big shortage of electrician in Ontario, the 4.5 year is mandatory.
Is it ridiculous? Absolutely NOT. Usually industry like this is called regulated industry. Industry like IT and electronics is called unregulated industry. Without this high level barriel of entry, everybody could be an electrician overnight. If there are 100 times more electricians in the market, do you think they could make $40 an hour any more? Look at those IT guys who was laid off and can not find a job, then you will agree that regulated industry is more job secured than the unregulated industry.
Traditionally, Chinese business compete each other by price. People seldom think about regulate the industry and protect the market and price. This is the reason why Chinese work hard but earn less, and their business is usually limited to the labor intensive job, and their product is always belongs to the poor quality and cheap market.
To make you self living better, learn to live like western people.作者: 工作无忧 时间: 2004-4-14 15:30 标题: you get the point! you are right. you have said what i wanted long time before.you get the key and point.
i remember that i took part in a semina given by some chinese association and company,from there i realized the similair point like you talked. in that semina, a lady show the audience a graph of company's infrastruction in canada.to my suprise, the 95% companies have less than 15 employee, and 75% companies have less than 5 employee! so how can you imagine these companies can afford to hire so many professional employees. i meet some professional engineers here, they all have own companies but EVEN THEIRSELF don't have enough work to do!作者: 游夫 时间: 2004-4-14 15:53
我认为找不到专业工作的最大原因是语言能力。连沟通都成问题，就是承认你的学历，你也不能胜任工作，还有谁会雇你。因此我觉得把找不到专业工作归咎于加拿大政府对外国的学历的不认同是根据不足的。
扎扎实实地学习外语，提高与人交流的水平才是找到专业工作的最重要的途径。作者: swiftcloud 时间: 2004-4-14 17:41 标题: you are right! 作者: 爱看卡通片 时间: 2004-4-14 21:12 标题: 虽然点破问题实质,但确实让人沮丧,这种文章只会让人更加消极,有时候难得糊涂是好事 作者: sd222 时间: 2004-4-14 21:22 标题: 很多人还没读懂楼主的文章 楼主的文章是站在总体宏观的角度来分析大多数移民为什么找不到专业工作.文章用了概率的概念和买奖票的例子.
楼上那位想当工程师的朋友大概忘了, 快40岁的人了还花得起4-5年的时间吗?工程师证拿到了,也该退休了.
语言问题,我看也不是.我的听力能看懂原版电影的95%,口语对话吗,跟他聊一天都没事,即使是在电话里.在国内干了10年的专业工作,还当过技术翻译--当时那个职位,跟老外聊不到3分钟就由我来开价.可现在,工作找来找去还没有着落.虽然我还相当有信心能中奖一个专业工作.可是总体上说,改变不了大多数移民的命运.
前段时间看了一个贴子,一个职位200多人申请.面试时面试官把你的穿着打扮,一举一动放在难以置信的地位.面试官(咱们中国人)在论坛上说,从穿着打扮,面试时的举动可以推断你的性格等等.我看是人太多使得他无法挑选才逼迫他这么做.穿着打扮,面试时的举动吗,只要不是太特别就足够了, 技术工作吗,又不是公关或者礼仪接待.作者: mdq101 时间: 2004-4-15 00:53
本人赞同原文作者的观点，想补充几点：
其实，大可不必把自己仅仅限制在专业工作的范围内。条条大路通罗马。说起来，只有寄希望于自己。人必自助而后天助之。天生我才必有用。此处不容爷，自有容爷处是也！作者: NewFish 时间: 2004-4-21 19:58 标题: 作者观点有失偏颇！ 1) 加拿大政府不会拿自己的移民法开玩笑，事实上，工程师，知识分子们（包括知识混子们）做工人并不是很称职。如果加拿大需要工人，完全可以劳务输入。
2) 自身能力是最大的问题。别的行业我不懂，仅就程序员发表点见解。自称是IT业的人很多，可是真正学计算机的有多少个？有多少个材料是掺水的，甚至是假的？真正学计算机里面的，专业技术好的有多少？不是搞几天网站、数据库什么的就是合格的程序员。我有朋友自称“软硬件皆通”，结果“软件”搞过数据库，“硬件”装过机子，简直是开国际玩笑！学计算机的应该问问自己，汇编功底怎么样？操作系统你了解多少？C/C++是否能运用自如？编译器原理（尤其是C++编译器）你又知道多少？STL、ATL、COM这些技术你是否一直在追踪？UNIX你用过几年，对其内核及构建思想又了解多少？现代软件工程的各种流派你是否深入学习过？你爱计算机吗？看看美国人的计算机水平，再看看自己，就知道为什么工作难找了。
3) 英语是个问题，但是不是关键问题。加拿大要的是技术移民，关键是技术。
4) 身边不断有失败的，也不断有成功的，这就是一个正常的社会。我看到几个国内的副教授过来收垃圾。我不同情他们，在国内怎么评的副教授，还用我说吗？美国教授为什么没有到中国收垃圾的？相反我的很多朋友都有专业工作，而且有的经常跳槽，关键还是技术要过硬。
5) 说到底，一个正常的社会是给你正常机会的社会，没有捷径。你爬100米，别人也一样。如果你不能适应优胜劣汰的社会，谁也没有办法。
6) 以上肺腑之语，冒犯之处请各位看客原谅。作者: zmxnc 时间: 2004-4-21 20:22
Reason:
Most people don't have patient. IF you keep on....you will definitely find teh job in your field.
Good luck.作者: 毛毛 时间: 2004-4-22 13:00 标题: 回复：作者观点有失偏颇！ 最初由[NewFish]发布
学计算机的应该问问自己，汇编功底怎么样？操作系统你了解多少？C/C++是否能运用自如？编译器原理（尤其是C++编译器）你又知道多少？STL、ATL、COM这些技术你是否一直在追踪？
点这里作者: 小小mm 时间: 2004-5-2 21:27 标题: I agree but...... Could you guys discuss something?
Why do you live in the world? for
money?social status or power? happiness?
If you are looking for social status, why not go back to China?
If you are trying to make money, how much do you need?
If you are greedy, you'll never be satisfied with your salary even if you find white collar job.
If you are happy guy , you are always think ing you are making more in Canada than you made in China even if you are doing blue collar job.
Here is Canada. Most Canadian are happy with their job and enjoy their life no matter blue collar or white collar job they have.
Even if you have white collar job, who is going to flatter you?
Even if you have blue collar job ,who is going to look down to you?
Nobody.
But why do you complain too much?
It was your decision when you chose to immigrate here.
Nothing is perfect because nobody is perfect including you.
Just keep working hard and eventually you will achieve your goal no matter what you are doing.
Everything takes time. You can't be a millionnaire in one night.
Be patient, guy.
Good luck.作者: 小小mm 时间: 2004-5-2 22:48
Continue 24
I am writing to whoever are complaining their job or situation.
if you were Canadian government ,you would do same thing.
You had white collar job in China. but how much did you make?
You are having blue collar job in Canada now. How much do you make?
You left China and don't want to go back to China because you know you are making more money now.
It is good for you.
And also it is good for Canada.
professional can both labour's job and professional job.
but labour can't do professional's job.
If you were working for Canadian government you would choose professional to immigrate Canada.
When Canadian economy is good, professional do professiaonl job. When it is slow, professional still can do labour's job.
Who said you must do professional job in all your life.
It depends on business.
And also you were a professional or white collar from developing country. Canada is a developed country.
Of course you need to be improved.
For example, does Chinese company easily hire people from a poor country which is behind China?
It is not only becuase of language but also technology,science management experience,mature law etc.
Every time When you complain, you should double check yourself first.
Don't expect too much from others.
The people who should complain are local Canadian.
Think about it.
It is hard for them to find job too even if blue collar job.
They have excellent English but they can't find even labour's job.
Why?
Because too many people here are looking for job.
We are in their land to look for job. We are not Canadian yet.
If we complain, what should they do?
You always think you are smart or intellengent in your career . Why not invent new technology or set up a new business and create more opportunity for others?
You always think how good USA is. Why not immigrate to USA?
Since you immigrate in Canada, you should love Canada and do something for Canada instead of complaining all day and every where.
Remember your promise before you immigrate here?
Always check what you did? Don't always use the flashlight to check what the others did.
The world would be better if everybody supervised himself/her self.
The fact is everybody is trying to supervise others like flashlight.
What is more, some people are trying to supervise government.
No wonder you are not successful. Your attitude is negative.
You spent too much time finding people's fault. If you can't find a good job. You are complaining this deparment's fault or that policy's fault or every leader's fault.
Only the people you forget is yourself.
Are you flashlight? If not, stop complaining.
Try to work hard and start from beginning to rebuild yourself.
Sometime Canadian are lazy. They are not rich. But they are nice.
Try to learn something good from them.
Forget about fighting or complaining.
The world would be better if everybody is satisfied with whatever they have already got and keep working hard for the future.
Immigrant should enjoy their life like Canadian do. Otherwise they'd better go back to their country.
Don't bring too much trouble here.作者: mikezhang 时间: 2004-5-3 10:48
不管怎么说，加拿大的好工作机会很少，特别是给移民的。也许
别的地方也是这样。good luck everybody!作者: 健健康康 时间: 2004-5-4 18:07
让我们还是回到主题
实际上，加拿大社会，政府也是认识到这个问题，也是希望加以解决的。加拿大每年还是有不少资金投在辅助移民的项目上，但好象成效不大。仔细想想真要着手做也真是不容易，不妨你自己设身处地想想？作者: 名不见经传 时间: 2004-5-4 23:12
This is a very good point that reflects the whole employment environment in Canada. I agree with you. I don't think that will give anything negative to our Chinese Immigrants. Because it tells the fact, at least it gives us some usful ideas. Don't just focus on working at the office as "white collars", because you will feel disppointed finally. Just review your minds , give some chance to you self, find out your own protentials, and also you can keep in your field if you like. Don't think only "white collars" are succeful, just do what you should do. That is what I am doing now.作者: lecy 时间: 2004-5-6 20:19
我找到了两个专业工作,前一个干了两年.没有什么大惊小怪.如果没有,我可能并可以在什么地方无家可归呢.也许正是我想要的. 富贵有何宝贵.来之前就没有打算能找到什么象样的工作,能养家糊口就够了.怎么过不都是一辈子.我的确很优秀,但是和那些托福GRE高分得主相比,就属于低能了.但他们都不见了. 我不赞成优秀的人出国目标只是上等工作. 其实要求不要太高,知足长乐.明天炒鱿鱼,我小子立刻乐呵呵.加拿大如诗歌,有起伏也有跌宕,最终还是天堂乐土.作者: loong 的传人 时间: 2004-5-13 23:07 标题: 终于找到一个好借口！ 我觉得原作者的意思无非是为自己以及自己周围一大批找不到专业工作的人找一个理论依据，现在经过作者考证，终于得出了结论：你们这些人努力不努力结局是一样的，不是有人第一次买彩票就中大奖了吗？那我们索性都到树下去等那送上门的兔子吧。实际上我觉得还是要承认那些幸运儿处了运气的成分外更多的还是依靠实力，应该更多地去学习别人的长处，弥补自己的 弱点，同时把心态调整好，用积极、乐观、向上的态度面对人生，这就够了，没有必要给自己定不切合实际的目标也没有必要找完不成目标的借口。作者: 健健康康 时间: 2004-5-14 13:57
建议换一个角度看问题
技术移民找专业工作难是加拿大目前移民政策面临的一个极大的挑战。这个问题在移民政策辩论中称为Over-qualified and downward employment and earning trends。从移民政策解决这个问题似乎只有两个选折。一是保持现状，指望下一代能够改善这种状况。这种方案的一个后果是有可能导致民众不再支持目前的移民政策，因为移民的整体状况不好意味着消耗更多的社会福利，甚至产生一些更极端的思潮，有一些国家就有这种情况发生；二是减少目前的移民人数，这对加拿大经济的长远发展有可能造成影响。
2。个人能力。对非英语国家来的移民，沟通能力是一个巨大的障碍。沟通能力是基础，它限制了技术移民的专长发挥。这里在讨论的问题是技术移民是否必须一切从头来（start from scratch）？从Canadian English Benchmark开始一级一级上去，再读一个专业？这是当地教育的模式。如果技术移民也是这样，那就不需要技术移民了，或者说技术移民的Human Capital没有得到回报。
5。建议。技术移民应该最了解自己，还有那么多已经在这里有一定社会基础的老前辈，能否pool talent to find solution and heighten voice in the society。作者: .NET 时间: 2004-5-24 19:13 标题: 为什么大多数专业人士找不到专业工作？ Do NOT agree!
Although the author is partly right for sure, I rarely see any software develper has not found the professional in 6 months after landing. All my friends here(10+) have found the professional jobs. Exceptions include recently landed guys and someone majors in some specific fields.
Before say this, we have to answer one simple question - HOW GOOD ARE WE?作者: 安乐居士 时间: 2004-6-10 16:18 最初由[mdq101]发布
本人赞同原文作者的观点，想补充几点：
